Vox: Trump is the Result of a 3-decade war on govenrment

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by hulugu, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #1
    An interesting article offered, not for Trump partisans who seem to hear their own music at this point, nor diehard Republicans who will excuse any excess of the Republican party as a necessity, but rather for the middle-road who might want to consider just how a reality tv star and noted egomaniac became the party's nominee:

     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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  3. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #3
    At least someone is standing up and calling out the American Taliban for what they are.
     
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #4
    your heads will explode when he is announced the winner :D
     
  5. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #5
    While the article uses the election as a jumping-off point, the argument goes beyond Trump into how Republicans argued against professional politicians, an argument that effectively neutered their own candidates, including governors with years of experience in government.

    This argument may have cratered not only dozens of viable Republican candidates, but may make the United States increasingly ungovernable once Democrats pick up the same ideology and stack the House and Senate with "Bernie Bros" who won't compromise either.

    Trump is merely the scabby malignancy that augurs a deeper, invasive cancer.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #6
    do you know what was Bernie's appeal? his anti establishment talk , perhaps people from BOTH sides of the aisle who are not republican/democrat partisans who seem to hear their own music happen to be tired of it all.
     
  7. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Anti-establishment is all very well. And it is healthy for any organization to periodically bring in new voices, and purge some of the older ones.

    But lets not kid ourselves about Senator Sanders "anti-establishment" credentials. He's been in Washington on and off since the early 1990s.

    Lets also not be under any illusions about partisanship. In a normally functioning democracy the out-of-power party acts as a check on the actions of the one in power. They voice opposition during debates, sometimes introduce legislation on their own. And some members of the opposition party may be amenable to compromises to proposed legislation in order to earn their votes. IOW Partisanship ain't all bad.

    The problem is that the Republicans have sold themselves, and their voters, on the toxic (and false) notion that all Government is essentially bad. And yet rather than wonder why these same Republicans keep trying to maintain control over an institution they supposedly detest - Republican Primary voters took things to the next level, by choosing Trump. A man with not only no Government experience whatsoever, but precious little other than lip-service affiliation to the Republican Party itself.

    For three decades Republicans told their voters lies: Those chickens came home to roost in the form of Donald Trump. Who is busy telling them a whole new set for them to be disappointed by.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016

    DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #8
    Conservatives don't believe government is bad, they believe government too big is bad and that a government big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take it away. There should be no establiment period. All of them Congress, Senate should be just like the President and have term limits, the also shouldn't be able to set laws for thee but not for me by excluding themselves.
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #9
    That might have been true once. I'm not sure it is anymore.
     
  10. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Well, we do have a Constitution that deals with things like the seizure of property, so I'm not quite sure where you want to go with that.

    The problem with the Republican opposition to "big Government" is when it comes down to the actual details. No Republican wants to be labelled as weak on Defense. And so military spending is pretty much of a sacred cow. Worse, they seem to find a way to foist unwanted weapons, bases, and programs onto a military that doesn't actually want them.

    Then there is the tricky matter of entitlements. Most of which go to the same old white people who elected them in the first place. Social Security and Medicare are the biggest, by far, items in the non-military budget.

    So Republican opposition to "Big Government" usually comes down to defunding things they don't like: Like the relative pittance that goes to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting or National Endowment for the Arts. A billion dollars here or there, in a budget numbering in the trillions, really is less than a rounding error.

    And defunding Planned Parenthood, which actually provides pretty good return on its Federal dollar in providing health services to low-income women. Every dollar that PP spends on giving women access to birth control probably saves hundreds in welfare, medicaid, foodstamps, and education spending. But PP also provides (not at Government expense) abortions. But these Big-Government Republicans, defenders of personal liberty, decide its their business what women do with their own bodies. So......

    Yeah, the more I think about it, Republicans are the problem.
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #11
    you are confusing conservative voters with republican politicians, IMHO anyways.
     
  12. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Notice I said Conservative. Conservatives =/= Republican

    I won't go into the defunding planned parenthood thing.
     
  13. v0lume4 macrumors 65816

    v0lume4

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    #13
    Whether Republican or Democrat, I question anyone who wholly expects the government to solve all of our problems. I tell you, relying too much on the government will leave you disappointed every single time. While I'm a Trump fan, I know that things can turn out either good or bad with him in office. Same for Bernie Sanders--things could have turned either turn out good or bad. None of us know, as this is a conversation we only can have after one term of our presidential pick.

    Republicans and Democrats BOTH are the problem right now. On both sides of the aisle, we have politicians that are out there for themselves, not out for you or me. Not the people. Frankly, I believe that's why Trump and Bernie both gained such popularity. While they approached topics entirely differently, Trump and Bernie both have that small sliver of similarity with their anti-establishment talk.
     
  14. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #14
    Relying on ANYTHING too much will leave you disappointed.

    The main problem we have right now is one party that wants too much government over stupid **** and another party that's intent on sabotaging government and making it as dysfunctional as possible so they can go and claim "government doesn't work".

    Until the parties return to the days of working together to build a system that works for everyone, we won't get anywhere, and America will continue it's deterioration spiral.
     
  15. v0lume4 macrumors 65816

    v0lume4

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    #15
    I hear you, my friend. When we have two parties fighting against each other instead of moving forward, we get nowhere. It's really sad. We have so many level headed people in this country--people that can listen to and compromise with others. Where are the people like that in Washington?
     
  16. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #16
    Drowned out by the crazies and gerrymandering, unfortunately.

    And the fact that ~35% of eligible voters in this country show up to the average election.
     
  17. DrewDaHilp1, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016

    DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    That fact makes me mad. I don't know the percentage it was, but I remember guarding poll locations in Iraq. Those people were threatened with death and then they still showed up and left with a dyed purple finger showing they voted.
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #18
    American idol is more important in the U.S. what do you expect from a nation that made the Krapdashians famous?
     
  19. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Did you see what Black Chyna said about Kayne???
    [​IMG]
     
  20. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #20
    My previous comment was meant only to illustrate that Conservatism has been perverted over the past generation. To those Conservatives left - I feel for you. Fear not, on the other side of the aisle are a bunch of "democrats" who feel that (a) they'll entitled to a free-lunch and (b) that complex social/political issues can be solved by a new law or a popular demonstration...sad state of affairs all around, I'm afraid...
     
  21. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #21

    "Starve the beast" has been a conservative tactic since Reagan. Republicans love big government at the state level, not the federal. They don't like being told their discriminatory policies are just that or illegal by some "unelected bureaucrat".
     
  22. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #22
    Trump has benefited from Big Government his entire career. He's hardly a small government conservative.
     
  23. DrewDaHilp1, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016

    DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    See post above Conservative =/= Republican

    It really sucks that, at least in American Politics we are basically forced to use two words (Republican/Democrat) to desribe our philosophy. I consider myself Conservative in the way of budget/foreign intervention, socially Liberal(old Liberal i.e. "Free")
    --- Post Merged, Jul 21, 2016 ---
    True, but you know, God why am I defending him again?

    He's the only one at least in recent history to come out and admit that the system is crooked and he used it for his advantage. Meanwhile you have the likes of Clinton that tries to say she struggles like the "little" people, when that chick hasn't even drove herself anywhere in the last 20+ years.
     
  24. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #24
    It's not hard to come out against something - especially something so obvious as a crooked Political system. What is hard, is having a meaningful alternative. With Trump, it's like: "Hey, Climate change is real! You with me? I'm gonna build a laser to destroy the sun (and the sun's gonna pay for it)! Needless to say, Trump is the personification of "objection to" but not anything of substance...
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #25
    Well the movers and shakers don't seem impressed one way or another by Trump's tales, and in fact still seem inclined to think it's the election results that will disappoint Republican voters.

    So far, at least per a Reuters piece I bumped into today, there seems rather mixed reaction to the prospect of a Trump presidency in the financial districts. On balance it appears they realize there's no consistent set of policies coming from his candidacy, so no need to hedge one way or another, and perhaps no need to consider Trump's election a likely scenario. One indication of a yawn: Mexican stocks are up 10% this year. If they're going to pay for a wall, it's news to Wall Street.

    Of course the tail is capable of wagging the dog, and markets usually get a little more roiled up trying to bake in the October surprises of a general election campaign in August. Time will tell.
     

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