Wainwright could go on singing Garland tunes

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Sep 25, 2007.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #1
    http://www.calendarlive.com/music/cl-et-wainwright25sep25,0,4981910.story

    I post this with some trepidation, hoping nobody takes offense. At first this just seemed to be one of the more unusual entertainment event reviews I've read, but as I read I found myself becoming very curious to know how exactly (or even approximately) Judy Garland became a "beacon" and a "saint" within the gay community, and how she "inspired his elders to have the courage to achieve what freedoms he now enjoys." I've never understood this connection, but after reading this review, I find myself even becoming more puzzled, because the writer assumes we know all about and accept it on face value. Can anyone explain?
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    I'm not sure; she's a bit before my time but Ask Yahoo! offers this:

    Discuss. :D
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Sorry I can't help. I've never understood it either. I also don't get Barbara Streisand, Cher, or any of the rest of the female gay icons/divas. I'm told it has something to do with the fact that these women had to overcome this and that, but I still don't get it. I find all of their music to be repulsive and soulless. But hey, that's just me. I was always more the punk rock type homo (if there is such a thing).

    I like some Rufus Wainwright stuff. But lately he seems to be really whiny and over-the-top. A shame- Poses is a classic record in my book. Unfortunately, it will probably remain his best work.
     
  4. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Well that's interesting, thanks. I suppose some of my puzzlement over this issue come from being a big Judy fan myself, although I am not now, nor have I ever been, gay. The oddest comment in the article was a paraphrase of Wainwright saying that 85% of the people attending the '61 concert were gay men. In those years, Judy was a huge international star with her own TV show. She'd have been an even bigger star it if hadn't been for her self-destructive impulses.

    Inherited that impulse from his Dad, probably (who incidentally goes unmentioned in the article).
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    I was never a Loudon fan. He's a fun comedic actor though. :)

    Ah- just saw BVs post. Yeah- that's what I've always heard. I've never been into her though. I've always been more inspired by people who really had it bad and you could hear it. People like Billie Holiday and such. That was some crazy stuff. I guess that's why a lot of early punk and post-punk got to me as well. Oh- and Diamanda Galas during the ACT-UP years was blood-curdling. Her records even scared my cat.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Nice.
     
  7. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #7
    I don't know about why Garland is a gay icon, but I saw Rufus Wainwright in Bristol earlier this year and he finished the gig by performing his version of 'Get Happy' with his band doing a dance routine. Bloody fantastic!

    Very good - carry on the discussion. :)
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    Like IJ and lee, I'm kind of lost in this subject. I'm not particularly strong in the areas of either music or gay culture, so I'd never even heard of Rufus Wainwright.

    Interesting reading. Thanks for bringing up the topic, IJ.
     
  9. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #9
    I'm not very familiar with Rufus Wainwright either, much beyond his being the son of Loudon Wainwright III,, who's been writing and recording self-obsessed and whiny (but often very funny) songs since the '70s. He's been kind of a cult star for a long time. His mother also is a well-known folkie.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :) If you want good Rufus Wainwright, check out "Poses". It's definitely his best and shouldn't annoy you too much. ;)

    However, if you listen to "Want One" or "Want Two", you may end up shoving pencils in your ears. He's an infuriating artist in the sense that you can love one record and hate the next.
     
  11. Queso macrumors G4

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    #11
    For the first time in ages, it's something from before my time that's confusing me :)

    Never quite seen the Judy appeal myself. I suppose those of us who lived through the early 80s had plenty of our own gay icons to relate to.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    That's for sure. There were a lot.
     
  13. kainjow Moderator emeritus

    kainjow

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    #13
    The first time I ever heard of Rufus Wainwright was at a Ben Folds concert. He opened for Folds, but I wasn't a big fan of it. Doesn't he have a part in Moulin Rouge?
     
  14. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    Perhaps it's because of the city I live in, but the connection of Garland to the gay community has always been a widely known and accepted fact here. The same can be said of Streisand, Minnelli, Midler, and others. Obviously that doesn't mean her appeal was limited to the gay community. I guess my surprise comes from your puzzlement over this. Is it because you weren't aware of this aspect of Garland's life, or is it because you don't get why there was this connection? If it's the latter, I'm impressed with Blue Velvet's post. It certainly gives me a look at this phenomenon that I hadn't thought of before.



    I understand Rufus and Loudon haven't always been on the best of terms (reportedly Rufus' sister Martha wrote her song "Bloody Mother F*****g A*****e" about their dad,) but while I've listened to both of their music, and enjoyed some of both of their work, I can't say I'm much of a fan or follow either one's career closely. To me, Loudon is simply the guy who sang "Dead Skunk," or perhaps more appropriately in this case "Rufus is a Tit Man," and Rufus, other than being in his old man's song, was the guy who did some nice covers of "Across the Universe" and "Hallelujah."
     
  15. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #15
    I really like the songs and the arrangements on these two but sometimes I find his voice really annoying. Other times I can really enjoy them, it's very strange.
     
  16. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #16
    Ditto - he's got a nasal pitch to his voice that, while distinctive, can become a bit grating after a while. I like Want One/Two just fine and need to go explore more of his back-catalog per lee's comments.

    I saw him open for Ben Folds, as someone mentioned before, but I was already familiar with his work and quite enjoyed the performance.
     
  17. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #17
    Buy or rent "A Star is Born." If you don't think the "Man Who Got Away" number is mind-blowing, then you definitely should be watching something else. ;)

    I'm aware of the gay community's connection, I was just trying to understand it better. My main puzzlement was over the 85% remark, because I am also aware that Judy Garland was a big star during this era.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Well, I've always been aware of it too. Anywhere you find a bunch of gay people those names will come up. But I never got it. I never got into the gay diva icons. They all seemed so shallow to me.
     
  19. Agathon macrumors 6502a

    Agathon

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    #19
    I remember hearing some years ago that, because of this, "FOD" was a code term for a gay man.

    FOD = Friend of Dorothy.

    I like it. It's got a nice ring to it. It's better than being a friend of Ted Nugent, like the rest of is.
     
  20. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    The unintended effect of too many drag impersonations, perhaps?
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Could be. I don't really know. I'm thinking I just like different things. I've never really fit in with any group though, not even gays. So I guess this is no different. ;)
     
  22. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #22
    I have both of those on my iPod, along with other covers of those songs, and the originals. More a fan of the songs than him, but he's ok. Used to have a crush on Judy when I was a little kid. It was mostly from Oz, but my parents loved classic movies, so I mostly knew her from her prime. She was a talented singer. Don't get the gay fascination with her, but there it is.

    Why is this in the PRSI forums though?
     
  23. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #23
    i can neither name a song or movie from her despite the famous name
    kinda funny
     
  24. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #24
    I know you aren't American, but dude, Wizard Of Oz.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #25
    never seen that movie (it's one of those movies which only get shown like once every few years at a totally stupid time during sunday morning)
    and i also don't know the fairy tale it's base upon

    it also happens to be way before my time ;)
     

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