Want a Mac? You’re on your own


PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
ok so the only problem he points out is that he cant backup though his IT department, but does he point out any other problems that he has had in the year of using his powerbook?? hmm.....

i dont really know what the point of this article was
 

mainstreetmark

macrumors 68020
May 7, 2003
2,229
293
Saint Augustine, FL
I *still* cannot network with any sort of windows machine at all.

I can see the machines on the Network, but when I enter a valid username and pasword, I get "The Alias could not be found" (I paraphrase, but you know the error I mean).

Can't talk to my dad's. Can't talk to customers' in 3 locations. Hell, can't even talk to my local machine at home, which is brand new.

The problem is with this Mac. Beats me what to do, and I'm not swimming around with other Mac people at the moment.

So, without corp IT support, I'd be screwed if I HAD to connect to their net.
 

tech4all

macrumors 68040
Jun 13, 2004
3,399
489
NorCal
mainstreetmark said:
I can see the machines on the Network, but when I enter a valid username and pasword, I get "The Alias could not be found" (I paraphrase, but you know the error I mean).
That notice is soo annoying. I've been getting that today when trying to connect to my laptop PC. Yet for some reason, I can connect to my other desktop PC fine....
 

MacSA

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2003
1,804
5
UK
Anyone that reads the MacBytes.com News Discussion section of these forums would end up never switching to Mac..its always full of very negative Mac stories. :eek:
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
MacSA said:
Anyone that reads the MacBytes.com News Discussion section of these forums would end up never switching to Mac..its always full of very negative Mac stories. :eek:
not true, there are some very praising articles that show up especially whenever new hardware is released
 

looklost

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2002
100
0
Chicago Suburbs
I guess he kinda has a point even though I don't like it. I mean I couldn't use a mac at work (don't ask me to explain, I know it's not an option). I can also understand not wanting to take on more work, companies are always looking for having less employees doing more tasks. And even though it's not the same circumstances, I convinced friends and family to switch to the mac platform and now I am married to those machines. Everytime there is a problem or something they can't figure out, I get a call or e-mail. I didn't think that after selling them on the mac platform that there would be no one else to ask about problems that arise (try telling your mom to call applecare instead of fixing the problem yourself and her not being able to call other family because there on windows). I don't know what made me think that if they couldn't figure out windows (or wouldn't spend the time to learn) that they would have no problems on a mac. After supplying IT support to my family and friends for the last 5 years I realized that most people don't know or want to spend the time to learn how to operate a computer. That being said I will still recommend apple to people I know, being the better platform, having less problems, and easier to fix.
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
looklost said:
After supplying IT support to my family and friends for the last 5 years I realized that most people don't know or want to spend the time to learn how to operate a computer. That being said I will still recommend apple to people I know, being the better platform, having less problems, and easier to fix.

BINGO!!

but one other thing i want to mention is this: The Mac Community

sure there are windows help sites, but i never got help from them, they were worthless, but the mac community really does help if you know where to look, so i think if you are willing to learn about your computer, it becomes easier with a Mac because there are more people out there who are willing to help you learn, thus giving you more resources
 

looklost

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2002
100
0
Chicago Suburbs
PlaceofDis said:
BINGO!!
so i think if you are willing to learn about your computer, it becomes easier with a Mac because there are more people out there who are willing to help you learn, thus giving you more resources
I agree with you 110%. I also own a wintel box at home and work on one at at my job. I don't think I know alot about windows inter-workings and whenever someone asks about a problem they are having I usually keep my opinions to myself. But when I hear others offer up windows solutions, they never sound like they would be a solution to the problem, more like standard run thru procedures, and usually the person comments later how what he was told "didn't fix the problem".
 

smiley

macrumors newbie
Mar 19, 2005
4
0
Ok, so he's griping that his backup "solution" doesn't work with the Mac? Anyone follow the link? $800 PER YEAR for 30GB of storage. This guy is a CTO and he hasn't figured that the cost benefit on that is crazy?

At that rate, they could buy a new external harddrive for EVERY employee and throw it out every year and buy a new one. Somehow this stinks of a guy prefacing his FUD with "I'm a Mac User, so I get it, but....."

Go back to your XP "Enterprise" solution. I have work to get done on my "unsupported" powerbook.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
18,678
1,183
New Zealand
mainstreetmark said:
I *still* cannot network with any sort of windows machine at all.
Try using Go -> Connect to Server. It seems to be significantly more reliable than the Network icon in the sidebar.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
Don't be too hard on the guy--he, and InfoWorld in general, have been very pro-Mac lately, an unusual thing for an IT magazine.

He's correct to point out that providing corporate IT support for Macs in a mixed network is not free. It costs time and money.

The flip side of course is whether the use of a Mac can also SAVE time and money. Which it very often can.

But that decision won't be the same for every company.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2002
4,295
3,837
Vancouver, BC
I have to agree with the fact that most Windows users just aren't Mac material. They don't have the passion, the admiration, the understanding that computers don't have to be inanimate objects that just cause headaches all day long. They *expect* computers to be difficult, confusing, and problematic, when we Mac users know that just isn't the case (when you choose the right platform). It's an uphill battle for us, and the Mac community is going to have to be open-minded, open-armed, and very, very patient. Apple is opening the flood gates and it's up to us to keep the boat afloat.
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
PlaceofDis said:
ok so the only problem he points out is that he cant backup though his IT department, but does he point out any other problems that he has had in the year of using his powerbook?? hmm.....

i dont really know what the point of this article was

OK. Let me shoot you a few.

1. Patches. You now have to manage an alternate platform in your environment. Joy.
2. Inventory. Enterprise tools like Blue Current and System Management Server don’t run on a Mac. So you will need to manage your Macs through other software.
3. Most helpdesks have support scripts designed around one platform: Windows. They now need to design new SOPs for the Mac for their helpdesk. More joy.
4. The Mac is a virtually unknown platform in the enterprise. You throw it into that environment and let’s see seasoned techs support it. All those *nix and Windows geeks out there, including me, would be lost the first time someone came up to us with an issue about a Mac. So there’s more training involved there which equals $$$.
 

ZipZilla

macrumors regular
Dec 7, 2003
158
28
Good article...

This guy hits the nail on the head.

When I switched to the Mac 7 years ago and started evangelizing it to people, I became the 24/7 Mac support for all my friends.

Now, I just let people make their choice and learn on their own. I don't even admit to knowing anything about computers, even though I have experience with all the common platforms.

This guy was steel on target.
 

cwtnospam

macrumors regular
Sep 4, 2004
148
0
SiliconAddict said:
OK. Let me shoot you a few.

1. Patches. You now have to manage an alternate platform in your environment. Joy.
2. Inventory. Enterprise tools like Blue Current and System Management Server don’t run on a Mac. So you will need to manage your Macs through other software.
3. Most helpdesks have support scripts designed around one platform: Windows. They now need to design new SOPs for the Mac for their helpdesk. More joy.
4. The Mac is a virtually unknown platform in the enterprise. You throw it into that environment and let’s see seasoned techs support it. All those *nix and Windows geeks out there, including me, would be lost the first time someone came up to us with an issue about a Mac. So there’s more training involved there which equals $$$.
1. Be serious: Software update works, unlike the Windows "equivalent"

2. Other software. What a concept! It's not like there is no "other software" available. Much of it is better on the Mac.

3. Helpdesk personnel who need scripts are no help at all. Those are the people who make life difficult for end users on any platform.

4. This I have the least sympathy for. Any Unix geek who can't handle OS X is no Unix geek. Ever heard of the terminal? As for Windows geeks, switching over a decent percentage of PCs to Macs means that you will need fewer of them, and that's a good thing.
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
cwtnospam said:
1. Be serious: Software update works, unlike the Windows "equivalent"
Really? Its obvious that you've had your head in the sand every time Apple has release a SP. As an example 10.2.8.....bring back any memories? How about some of the issues that users had with 10.3.x the early updates in the 2-5 range. Don't be dense. Apple's patches can FUBAR a system just as easily as MS's and frankly the tools and utilities that are out there to distribute patches to windows machines blows away Apple's.

2. Other software. What a concept! It's not like there is no "other software" available. Much of it is better on the Mac.
More denseness. You missed the point of the entire article didn't you. Its about supporting a single Mac or multiple Macs in an already est infrastructure. Go back and read the article...you are embarrassing yourself.


3. Helpdesk personnel who need scripts are no help at all. Those are the people who make life difficult for end users on any platform.
True..doesn't change the fact that this is how most helpdesks are setup. What are you going to make this justification to the CIO of Best Buy? Love to hear his response. You deal with the hand you are dealt and the fact remains that most call in helpdesks use scripts.

4. This I have the least sympathy for. Any Unix geek who can't handle OS X is no Unix geek. Ever heard of the terminal? As for Windows geeks, switching over a decent percentage of PCs to Macs means that you will need fewer of them, and that's a good thing.

Bull**** you have been drinking too much of the Apple koolaid. Please tell me what ind you work in because it sure as heck is't IT. And if it is... :eek: You better go back to school and learn how the industry works because you are again embarrassing yourself.
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,546
0
Washington
I think a few people are missing the point of the article. I don't like to hear the point, but it is valid in todays business.

Basically Macs are easier to maintain, he makes that point.
What he is saying is that as more and more "average" consumers enter the Mac market, they are going to need help. That help can NOT be provided by current IT structures within companies.
He admits that for the home user, without any IT help at hand, an Apple computer is a far better choice. but once you enter a company, there are half a dozen windows geeks standing by to help you with your computer, and that just isn't there if you have a Mac.

My mom has her own computer, and thank goodness it's a Mac. but she still needs help, and still asks me questions here and there. God bless her sometimes it's even the same question over and over. There will ALWAYS be people that, no matter the platform, WILL have trouble that they are not equipped to deal with.

I think all of us here are at least versed enough with out platform to make things work, or go someplace to get help. But I still meat people that think the idea of an "online message board" is foreign, and beyond their grasp.

If there was a Large IT section for Macs, Macs would of course be the better option, but as it stands right now, anyone that wants to use a corporate environment has to be ready to take care of 100% of their own problems themselves, and his point was that MANY Mac users aren't ready to do that.

~Tyler
Earendil
 

24C

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2004
519
0
Blue Velvet said:
What irritates me is that 'IT' has become synonymous with Microsoft/PCs.
<OT>...and what irritates me is that the UK gov fund 'IT' stuff, and some IT guy uses M$SQL server technology and the damn website expects to see IE 6.0 and higher...and no matter what, you can't access this stuff on a Mac without pretending to be a windows machine.

Back on topic, sadly the guy has a point, which boils down to...people don't like change and implementing changes cost time & money.
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Blue Velvet said:
What irritates me is that 'IT' has become synonymous with Microsoft/PCs.
... and this is because Apple conceded the corporate market to Microsoft for so many years and promoted the Mac as the machine for the rest of us, those of us who thought different. Apple courted the counter-culture, and reaped the dismissal of the corporate standards makers.

Two other contributing factors:
1) no MS Access. Apple should have insisted on application parity with MS when they had the leverage to do so. Access became the trojan horse for Wintel standardization. The CIO of our province once said, addressing a panel of suppliers: "We're not in the business of dictating platforms. We are in the business of standardizing productivity." and Access was part of the standard, effectively, Apple was shut out from that day on.

2) For way too long, until OSX came out, no effective OS-enforced, network-based policies/logon/user privilege restrictions were available for Macs. Central IT could not enforce limitations on what the users could install, run or change, and could not push updates out to 100's of machines at once (MacJanet and MacAdministrator notwithstanding).

You want to send chills down an IT director's spine? Just tell them that an IT employee has to go and manually update every machine in the organization, that it can't be done remotely. Or that the end users have been installing their own software and modifying their machine settings, and now need support.

Thanks
Trevor
CanadaRAM.com
 

mleok

macrumors member
Jan 12, 2005
39
3
La Jolla, CA
I'm in a university environment, and our sysadmin takes the opposite approach, he'll not support any Wintel machines, only our legacy Sun workstations, and Macs.

It is quite understandable to not want to deal with a truly hetrogeneous computing environment, interoperability is a huge pain.

As for becoming the de facto tech support for people you recommend macs to, I would say that if someone isn't coming to me with their Windows problems, I wouldn't go out of my way to try to convince them to switch to the mac, simply because doing so is equivalent in their eyes to permanently volunteering to be their free OS X tech support.

On the other hand, if you have relatives who are dependent on you to debug their PCs, then it might reduce your workload in the long term to recommend that they switch.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,570
0
At least on this forum, I find the majority to be very helpful. As mentioned luckily for the most part a Mac will run on its own.
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
IT departments don't like Macs because Windows/PC bring in business for them. And it's a vast conspiracy among IT professionals to always support the platform that requires constant maintenance.
 

plinden

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2004
3,969
3
Lacero said:
IT departments don't like Macs because Windows/PC bring in business for them. And it's a vast conspiracy among IT professionals to always support the platform that requires constant maintenance.
Not really - it's more a self-perpetuating loop. There are PCs in use in businesses than Macs, hence there are more jobs in maintaining PCs. So anyone in IT would want experience in PC maintenance, since they are more likely to get work if they lose their present job.

Actually, I'm not really sure what our company IT department does. In six years, I've had two PCs. They had hold of the first one only three times in five years, once to give it me, once to upgrade from Windows NT to Windows 2000, and once when I handed it back to get my new Thinkpad. They've had my present one twice since I got it, once to hand it to me, and once to add 1GByte RAM