War of the Robots. The time has come!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rasmasyean, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. rasmasyean macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    ...within three to four years, at least one-fourth to one-third of all combat missions will be flown by unmanned aircraft. And a few years after that, unmanned ground vehicles will also begin to flood the market and the battlefield...
    Forecast: Major Boosts In UAV, Ground Systems


    What implications will this have for the future of battle?

    Discuss... :)
     
  2. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #2
    that flight operations can be more easily grounded by an opponent by an simply airstrike on the central station for control the remote controlled planes

    don't forget that every single of the current vehicles is simply flown from a remote location ... which is fine if you are sure that nobody can harm you there but against a more prepared enemy that might be quite dangerous because of the lack of decentralization
     
  3. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #3
    Have they learned nothing from Hollywood? :eek:

    Terminator 2.jpg

    Plus, how are they proposing to pay for all of this, in light of the imminent nationalisation of the banking system in the USA?
     
  4. TheAnswer macrumors 68030

    TheAnswer

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    #4
    Most of the bank tellers at my bank could pass for machines, coincidence?? :eek:
     
  5. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Never mind the future of battle...think of when the technology becomes cheap enough that anybody can own one.

    Imagine the disputes with your neighbors....
     
  6. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #6
    The title implies that these are independent machines, they are all remote controlled. Communication issues, solar flares, etc. could be an issue.
     
  7. Anuba macrumors 68040

    Anuba

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    #7
    Anti-aircraft weapons will be replaced by giant magnets that suck the planes out of the sky. :D
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    In all seriousness, this would have the positive value of saving human lives (by which I mean the lives of any country that utilizes these things). Depending on the technology, they may or may not be as capable as humans at some things -- evasive action, selective targeting, etc.

    On the other hand, the negatives are obvious. The more you automate combat, the more of the human element you take out of it, and the easier it is to kill. It's not hard to launch an attack, or to see your intended victims as targets instead of people, if you feel there won't be any consequences for you.
     
  9. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #9
    I never thought I would ever read that.

    You are assuming that this is not the case already. From recordings of video we already know that they are not seen as people but targets in a video game.
     
  10. Schtumple macrumors 601

    Schtumple

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    #10
    Society would end.
     
  11. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #11
    actually self flying drones (withotu remote control) are available .. there are those small copters with 4 propellors which can navigate on their own preloaded course via GPS coordinates + height data and have a range of perhaps 10 miles or so and some models can carry quite a bit of weight

    (it is indeed used by some guys for small drug & money smuggeling)

    if you are on the cheap and you are happy with some crap picture taking a friend bought himself a cheap model flyer + camera + video headset and goes around flying
     
  12. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #12
    That is awesome/creepy :)
     
  13. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    #13
    With all of the R/C aircraft available, you could add a few consumer products to it, and build your own UAV.

    The C in UCAV is the hard part. Munitions aren't so easy to come by just yet. A highly resourceful person may be able to improvise though. So it might be a good idea not to piss off the neighbors kids. ;) :p
     
  14. rasmasyean thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Here is a prototype ground one...
    Crusher UGV

    If you guys want to see some non-remote control at it's best you should google...
    Darpa Grand Challenge
    Darpa Urban Challenge

    If you can find the full documentary videos, they are pretty cool with interviews and how they work, etc.

    They have went through deserts and courses in an urban combat training grounds to perform checkpoints, parking, figuring out a "detour" from a blocked road, etc.
    Top contenders are like Stanford University and Carnegie Mellon University but other smaller players are pretty good too.
     
  15. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #15
    While tech like this is always impressive on certain levels, it's utility is perhaps dubious.

    Future engagements are most likely going to be low-level, amorphous affairs, against an ill-defined enemy. Tech advantages can be somewhat helpful, not a factor, or detrimental in these instances, depending on the usage and strategy behind such.

    This seems like another self-perpetuating justification for large military/defense spending.

    As far as tech goes, i'd like to see a device that automatically translates between languages on the fly - as communication (and intel) are the real necessities in contemporary conflicts imo.
     
  16. rasmasyean thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Like this translator?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFm93F-ST0

    Oh also, btw, not sure if you know, but Windows Vista has speech recognition. Not many people use it now but I'm sure they will be adding translation in the next years along with the support of language packs in the Ultimate edition.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #17
    true that but on the other side for conventional conflicts the superiority is already there on certainaspects like naval warfare, which mostly get missed since flying drones (even though they are mostly just remote controlled) or robots get more attention in the media

    on the other side the new german naval fregattes have fully automatic fighting: it is possible to enter parameters (range in which targets should be engadget etc.) and then the ship will fight fully automatic with no interaction whatsoever.. including fully dynamic evasion manouvers against missiles/torpedoes and fighting air and sea targets within range with evaluating priority and value of targets (and thus doesn't waste prescious missiels against cheap targets) and even goes so far and tries to protect other,friendly, sea targets

    while only intended as emergency measure it still is scary

    true that.. especially for ground robots it currently seems so since when you look at those darpa vehicles with all those antennas etc. they sure lack the possibility incorperate it in any way on an actual armored vehicles
     
  18. rasmasyean thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Really? What are they called? Link please? :)

    ...YET. ;)
     
  19. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

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    #19
    This is the precise reason why I and other Friends of Humanity members are working on "EnemiesofHumanity.com", a not-for-profit website dedicated towards the elimination of the major threats to the human race (namely: robots, paranormals, and aliens). Full military confrontation is the least of our problems. Our organization is currently tracking no fewer than 13 domination vectors, which comprise predictive timelines in which humanity is overthrown, subjugated, and/or annihilated. The most chilling is the growing trend towards creating robot "love-slaves" aimed at simply dissuading normal human sexual reproduction, by replacing it with fruitless human-on-robot carnal gratification. Remember B1-66ER. Remember the Second Renaissance.

    ~ CB
     
  20. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #20
    i think it was the F124 series ... it was a report on tv so i'm not sure (that aside they are still bugged by software problems ;) )

    i expect all future naval vessels either just recently released or upcoming to feature similiar capabilites

    it's always the same: as soon as needed and money doesn't play a role all the concepts /upgrades come out the closet real fast either if advanced robotics (not only drones but also improved gun autoloaders) old fashioned weaponary ( 140mm upgrade for Leopard 2s), or close to sci fi weapons (guided supercavitation torpedoes)
     
  21. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

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    #21
    While you're right in the sense that it's not hard to launch an attack, the exact opposite is true for your main point. Research has shown that the people guiding these drones are hugely affected by killing enemy militants. It's the disconnect between their actions in some faraway place of command and the actual act of firing a missile at people. It makes them less able to cope with the consequences and emotions that come along with the direct connection and proximity of an actual pilot firing at people. I'll dig that study up later, as I have somewhere to be in a few minutes, but I'm positive that this is the case; The government has to have lots of counseling for these drone pilots because of it.
     
  22. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #22
    This reminds me of an episode of Star Trek. They had computerized war so that they didn't have bombs and destruction, etc. People were randomly chosen to go to disintegration chambers. Basically without seeing the horrors of war, there was little incentive to stop or prevent war.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Taste_of_Armageddon
     
  23. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #23
    The future will be more warfare.

    Imagine the politician's point of view: "I can vote for this, we can win the battle and there's zero possibilty of losing American lives!" The lives of our soldiers will be safer but the lives of people in other countries will become even more at risk from clueless American politicians looking for a quick bump in the polls. Whether or not we should be out there shooting things in the first place will become even less of an issue than it is now.
     
  24. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #24
    What an incredibly waste of money. I have a better idea to keep people from getting killed during wars: stop waging wars.

    Our "defense" budget needs to be cut by at least half.
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #25
    While I agree on the waste-of-money factor - I think it is safe to say that there will always be conflicts (and fatalities).

    Technology has an interesting role in the waging of wars and the casualties inflicted.

    Mechanized tech (tanks, artillery) made wars a lot more intensive, required a heightened sense of coordination and effort of the whole state for logistics, transport and development - and increased casualties by a large factor.

    Nuclear tech (weapons-grade) has had the effect of making a full-scale conventional war between possessors a near-zero probability. Proxy skirmishes, perhaps.

    In any case, since conflicts will invariably arise - the question becomes how to fight them most intelligently and within the ethical/political framework of the participant. As a democracy, we have certain limitations on effective war waging, as a result of the relatively deliberative decision-making process we employ. Casualties also play a large role in public acceptance/disagreement. It is interesting, however, that since we have a specialized, volunteer military - the public is still not fully engaged in the war effort, or it's consequences. Even in Vietnam, public outcry did not really congeal until after the draft was actually sending draftees in large numbers to fight - the effects and consequences became visceral to the average american.

    UMVs can, at best, provide valuable intel (though not as good as imbedded personnel) - and at worst, further divorce us from the realities of warfare - and to make us make tactical and strategic choices abstractly, even flippantly.

    If the true desire is to lessen the frequency of American engagements, then a draft is a good start. While it may occasionally make it difficult for the US to effectively engage in a necessary engagement, it will prevent knee-jerk engagements and ill-defined conflicts, for the reasons alluded to above.
     

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