Warner raises decapitation strategy for Apple


Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
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"It's going to be difficult to get the consumer to stop thinking about owning music, and think about paying for participation instead," said one executive.


No... really? :rolleyes:

What happened to the customer always being right?
 

Keynoteuser

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2003
149
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Columbus, Ohio area
sheesh

I think these guys are dead wrong. I now buy my music MOSTLY from iTunes, especially since they're starting to sweeting the deal with PDF booklets and videos with some albums. If they pull out from Apple, there's going to be a HUGE backlash. What would be funny is if they do it and all the iTunes customers get together to boycot the label that pulled...and CD sales tank.
 
Who is buying all these ringtones for $3 a pop? what a rip. I have never bought a ringtone, and at $3, i will never buy one. and when i hear somebodies phone ring that has one, i have uncontrollable urges to smash their phone into little pieces from the irritation it causes. Im glad i dont have teenagers.... yet.
 

Arnaud

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2005
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The Moon
:D
Blue Velvet said:
"It's going to be difficult to get the consumer to stop thinking about owning music, and think about paying for participation instead," said one executive.


No... really? :rolleyes:

What happened to the customer always being right?
Uh, generally speaking, I think this concept disappeared long time ago... (or is it nothing but a myth?).
I think there are no witnesses alive... An X-file ? Let's call Mulder and ask him about that.
 

devilot

Moderator emeritus
May 1, 2005
15,532
2
sillycybin said:
Who is buying all these ringtones for $3 a pop? what a rip. I have never bought a ringtone, and at $3, i will never buy one. and when i hear somebodies phone ring that has one, i have uncontrollable urges to smash their phone into little pieces from the irritation it causes. Im glad i dont have teenagers.... yet.
I wouldn't buy a ring tone at that price... but my bf has been known to buy $1.50 ring tones... It's one tiny way to show the world a bit of you. I don't mind him doing so because let's face it, I like hearing Little Mermaid's 'Under the Sea'. :D And Super Mario Brothers...
 

ibook30

macrumors 6502a
Jun 4, 2005
815
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2,000 light years from home
Blue Velvet said:
"It's going to be difficult to get the consumer to stop thinking about owning music, and think about paying for participation instead," said one executive.


No... really? :rolleyes:

What happened to the customer always being right?

Same thing jumped out at me. They are going to tell us how we can use music???... a whole new consumer model ? I assume for online sales only. This is ridiculous.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,273
4,636
Canada
.. and drive people back to piracy. Good plan.

$3 per song, just because you download it on your cell phone?! Waay over priced. Sheer Greed.

Ring tones are over priced too...
 

joepunk

macrumors 68030
Aug 5, 2004
2,557
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a profane existence
sillycybin said:
Who is buying all these ringtones for $3 a pop? what a rip. I have never bought a ringtone, and at $3, i will never buy one. and when i hear somebodies phone ring that has one, i have uncontrollable urges to smash their phone into little pieces from the irritation it causes. Im glad i dont have teenagers.... yet.
I don't even own a phone that can accept downloaded ringtones. I would never purchase a ringtone as the prices for them are unbelievable. I get really put off by those adds on some channels that advertise ringtones.
 

shamino

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2004
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Purcellville, VA
It's amazing how you can have an entire industry based on insulting and abusing its own customers.

Sort of like drug dealers and oil companies. But their customers don't have the option to stop buying. I've yet to see anybody lose his mind or his job due to unavailability of new music downloads.
 

shamino

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2004
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Purcellville, VA
ibook30 said:
Same thing jumped out at me. They are going to tell us how we can use music???... a whole new consumer model ? I assume for online sales only. This is ridiculous.
Their business plan is "we will threaten our customers until they pay up. If cutting off their iTunes doesn't work, then we'll try using hired goons to break their legs."

Hey, it works for the mafia. How is the RIAA any different?
 

iGary

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May 26, 2004
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Randy's House
They are such freaking idiots.

Perhaps they have not looked at the ITMS curve (rather, straight line up).

I don't buy any of my music in a store anymore.

My partner - he likes the album art and having a CD, but he's getting over that, as I suppose most people are.

I haven't seen any of these asshats back up their bold statements - go ahead, Warner, yank your music if you think there is a better delivery method. :rolleyes:

I dare you.
 

OhEsTen

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2003
173
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sillycybin said:
i have uncontrollable urges to smash their phone into little pieces from the irritation it causes. Im glad i dont have teenagers.... yet.
:D I feel the same way. I hate those damn "look at me - I have a cellular phone" ringtones.

But I have a question. Is anyone writing these greedy asshats and telling them this? I was thinking about actually writing these main labels and telling them what their "customers" think. I know it won't do any good - but by the way they act, they are so completely out of touch with the music buyer that it is clear they have no idea what it will take to keep them.

I will laugh my butt off if they do withdraw their support for the iTMS because that will launch a huge return of the P2P's. I only buy my music now from the iTMS mainly because of the convenience, and the ability to check out groups I have neve heard before. These companies think they are the oil companies - they think they can push everyone around without anyone getting in their way - but they're wrong. The labels are the middleman and everyone knows what happens to the middleman - they get cut out eventually. All these artists have to do is go straight to the music store and pretty soon the labels will get screwed to death.
 

Arnaud

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May 24, 2005
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I'm not such an iTMS user. I still like owning the CD better (which is major-crash proof), and I just copy it on my computer and my iPod.
It also works for my cell-phone: I transfer MP3 songs (via BT), to use them as ringtones (Sony S700i; currently "No phone", from Cake). $3 ??? Urk...

I don't think Apple would be so hurt without the iTMS. On the other hand, as long as there are customers, it should go on.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
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Gone but not forgotten.
Arnaud said:
I'm not such an iTMS user. I still like owning the CD better (which is major-crash proof), and I just copy it on my computer and my iPod.
It also works for my cell-phone: I transfer MP3 songs (via BT), to use them as ringtones (Sony S700i; currently "No phone", from Cake). $3 ??? Urk...

I don't think Apple would be so hurt without the iTMS. On the other hand, as long as there are customers, it should go on.
You are joking, right? iTMS does help to sell iPods and keep Apple's dominance intact.

If Warner (and all of their associated labels), it will be a mess but Apple and iTMS will survive, and Warner will probably return except for some hard-headed old men running the business.
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
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bousozoku said:
If Warner (and all of their associated labels), it will be a mess but Apple and iTMS will survive, and Warner will probably return except for some hard-headed old men running the business.
That's very likely to happen, but it may take a few years for WMG to spend down their post-spinoff endowment so that EMI can afford the merger.
 

wordmunger

macrumors 603
Sep 3, 2003
5,125
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North Carolina
People pay $3 for a ringtone because it's a small price to pay to avoid the embarrassment of not knowing it's your phone that's ringing. Not exactly an issue with music downloads, where you're competing with piracy, CDs, and casual music sharing -- burning CDs for friends, etc.

Clearly this is headed for a showdown, but it's fascinating to me how the music industry continues to not get it. They're stuck on the megahit model, which is exactly the WRONG way to go in a marketplace where file sharing is so easy.
 

Some_Big_Spoon

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Jun 17, 2003
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didn't Sony opt-out of the iTMS in Japan, only to request to be "invited" after music fans there called their bluff?

I hope Apple's in a strong enough position that if any of these criminals pulled out they'd be forced to come back..

Oh, and what's with "What if Jobs wanted 39cents, 29cents.." What fantastic reasoning.. postulate what hasn't, and would never happen, and pose it as fact to dupe your ditto-heads into towing the line, even if some/most know it's incredibly stupid.
 

mrsebastian

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Nov 26, 2002
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sunny san diego
"It's going to be difficult to get the consumer to stop thinking about owning music, and think about paying for participation instead,"

wow... i really don't know what else to say about these greedy [bleepers]. i for one am definitely up for boycotting any record company that tries to pull this [bleep]. can't wait till artists take control of their music and sell it through their own avenues thus leaving the record companies to be plain old marketing companies. which is essentially what they are now anyway and then artists can hire them to spread the word about their music on their terms.
 

granex

macrumors member
Jul 23, 2002
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Darth Music

Cue Obi-Wan voice: Warner, if you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

These guys may succeed in slapping Apple -- or they may succeed in unleashing a monster that dismisses the need for organized labels altogether and works directly with the artists. Old music will be pirated, new music will be on iTunes.

It won't happen all at once, but it only takes a few resisters to maintain momentum and for the labels to lose. Look at Sony in Japan. Do they really want to martyr Apple and build the coolness/rebel factor even higher?

The labels see this as their future one way or another, they are just trying to kill the golden child before it can assume the throne. That never works in the movies. In real life ....?

These guys will go directly after Steve before this is over -- one way or another. If this were Russia then he would already be in jail. I'm sure that the current Justice Department can think of something to do.
 

shamino

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Jan 7, 2004
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granex said:
These guys will go directly after Steve before this is over -- one way or another. If this were Russia then he would already be in jail. I'm sure that the current Justice Department can think of something to do.
The current DoJ doesn't care a whit about monopolies - real or imagined. Note how all investigation/prosecution of Microsoft stopped the instant Janet Reno left her position.

But even if they did manage to get an investigation going, what would the base it on? Claiming that Apple has a monopoly because they sell 100% of iPods is like saying that Ford has a monopoly for selling 100% of the F150's. It's a stupid argument and everybody knows it.

This administration has no problem with Microsoft not only having a monopoly in two product segments (desktop OS and office software), but also leveraging that monopoly to force hardware manufacturers into boycotting competitors. What makes you think they would care at all about Apple, whose only popular product (the iPod) isn't forcing anything on anyone.

And no, iPods do not force people to buy from iTMS. There are tons of other perfectly legal iPod-compatible sources to buy music from, including one (CDs) that the record labels already heartily endorse.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
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Some_Big_Spoon said:
didn't Sony opt-out of the iTMS in Japan, only to request to be "invited" after music fans there called their bluff?
...
Japan is a different culture--even the yakuza bow to public pressure. In one instance, they moved their office from a neighbourhood without any violence from either side.
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
2,237
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New Zealand
mrsebastian said:
"It's going to be difficult to get the consumer to stop thinking about owning music, and think about paying for participation instead,"

wow... i really don't know what else to say about these greedy [bleepers]. i for one am definitely up for boycotting any record company that tries to pull this [bleep]. can't wait till artists take control of their music and sell it through their own avenues thus leaving the record companies to be plain old marketing companies. which is essentially what they are now anyway and then artists can hire them to spread the word about their music on their terms.
I say we all move back to Bit Torrent and eDonkey and start file sharing with music files just to REALLY piss the ignorant music execs off, lets see if we can get a read flood of "illegal" music going again :D
 

Arnaud

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May 24, 2005
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The Moon
bousozoku said:
You are joking, right? iTMS does help to sell iPods and keep Apple's dominance intact.

If Warner (and all of their associated labels), it will be a mess but Apple and iTMS will survive, and Warner will probably return except for some hard-headed old men running the business.
Honnestly, I always see iTunes and iTMS as different things. For me, the connection between iTunes and iPod is what makes the iPod a cool gizmo (hence its advantage above other MP3 players), but iTMS is only one of the possible ways to feed iTunes with music, in parallel to your own cds etc... ?

Many iPod users use iTMS seldom, or don't use iTMS at all, but they still buy iPods - see the (foreign) markets where iTMS is not open yet, or was open recently, but where sales of iPod happened anyway -.
I don't think people buy iPods to be able to buy their music from iTMS only. I didn't, and many people on the forums either.

Maybe the marketing dept uses the assimilation of cool singers pictures (from iTMS) with iPod and that influences the sales ?

I haven't read all the reports of Apple either, so I might be easily wrong. I also have a view from Europe, where the iTMS market might be different.

Oh well :)
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
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I think it's more about Warner music wanting to compete with Apple, rather than work with them....
August 2005 said:
Warner Music readies CD-free 'e-label'

ASPEN, Colo.--Warner Music Group is creating a new music-distribution mechanism that will rely on digital downloads instead of compact discs.

Edgar Bronfman Jr., Warner Music's chairman and CEO, said Monday that the new mechanism will be called an "e-label," in which artists will release music in clusters of three songs every few months rather than a CD every few years...
All this crap is probably just shareholder marketing to make their shareholders happy that Warner is switching from Apple to "their own" on-line music store -- where "they" are in control of the profits and price.