We need to become an Evil Empire or butt-out!

lostngone

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Aug 11, 2003
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Anchorage
We have wasted trillions of dollars and killed tens of thousands of people in the last 30 years with our foreign policy and what do we have to show for it?

If we are going to invest all this money and lives to invade these these counties only to pull out 8 or 10+ years later and not make anything better in the process why not just annex the region and take the land. At least we would have something to show for the money spent and lives lost.

I say we pass a put-up or shut-up law. We shouldn't get involved in any foreign government action for any reason unless we are ready to occupy said country permanently.
 
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sorcery

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2016
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Ring of Fire
The military/intelligence is the enforcement arm of USA Inc. Destruction of the regime is the only requirement, theorize our masters, to make that country compliant with their desires. Humanity is irrelevant.
 
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citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
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We have wasted trillions of dollars and killed tens of thousands of people in the last 30 years with our foreign policy and what do we have to show for it? ...
The military industrial complex continues to be pleased by American intervention.
 
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BeeGood

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Sep 15, 2013
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Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
We have wasted trillions of dollars and killed tens of thousands of people in the last 30 years with our foreign policy and what do we have to show for it?

If we are going to invest all this money and lives to invade these these counties only to pull out 8 or 10+ years later and not make anything better in the process why not just annex the region and take the land. At least we would have something to show for the money spent and lives lost.

I say we pass a put up or shut up law. We shouldn't get involved in any foreign government action for any reason unless we are ready to occupy said county permanently.
Because we've learned that colonialism doesn't work. It's too resource intensive and the only way to make it worth our while is to do evil things like subjugate the population and/or extract resources without compensation.

So instead, we tried (or are trying?) this new-aged version of it called "exporting democracy", which is supposedly less evil because we don't stick around. We just try to stay long enough to make other people's societies look and function like ours. Problem is that surprisingly, not everyone in the world wants American values exported to them. So we leave with the job half done and another country in shambles.

Soon we will be on to some other version of meddling because, for reasons I don't quite understand, we seem to believe that we need to (and actually have the ability to) save the world from itself.
 

lostngone

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Aug 11, 2003
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Anchorage
Because we've learned that colonialism doesn't work. It's too resource intensive and the only way to make it worth our while is to do evil things like subjugate the population and/or extract resources without compensation.
I am not disagreeing but that is what we are basically doing now but worse. We show up and create power vacuum, take control and force them to do things our way until we run out of money or lose interest and then leave and let everyone fend for themselves.

So instead, we tried (or are trying?) this new-aged version of it called "exporting democracy", which is supposedly less evil because we don't stick around. We just try to stay long enough to make other people's societies look and function like ours. Problem is that surprisingly, not everyone in the world wants American values exported to them. So we leave with the job half done and another country in shambles.
Yep and we have nothing to show for it except a lot of pissed off people.
 

Zenithal

macrumors G3
Sep 10, 2009
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The Roman Empire lasted a long time.
Not an empire I was referring to, but fair play.

From what I gather, what you're suggesting is we either don't do anything or simply take over other countries we wish to temporarily occupy, correct? Take over their government, with force or otherwise, imprison those who rebel and rewrite their laws so they reflect the United States? What about forced labor?
 

Cox Orange

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2010
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Marshall-Plan worked. Free continent, invest money to build up the destroyed economy, money comes back, when they buy something from the US. US profits from the products of the investsments, when US buy stuff from them, that the US doesn't have enough capacity, ressources or material to produce on its own. Along the way implement/introduce democratic values in occupied country you trade with.

(EU invests money into Greece, Greece uses the money that it just got to pay back their depth/credits, bank gets their money back. Along the way the money is also used to pay workers. Workers pay taxes and buy things. Buy buying things they strenghten the economy...

... in theory.)


One could (Edit: I know there are some that would) argue against it, that it's a sort of state funded recovery/economy programm... a system that feeds itself from itself.
 
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sorcery

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2016
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Ring of Fire
State funded recovery systems are necessary, so that the working men and women can bail out the billionaires, when they get it wrong. Although, obviously, safety nets, such as single payer health, are unamerican.
There is , I think, no-one resembling Marshall, FDR or any other new deal politician left alive. Except perhaps Major Tulsi.
 
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