"We shall build a great (white picket fence) wall!"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. PracticalMac, Dec 2, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Brandon Judd, who advised Donald Trump's campaign, said that he thinks only 600 miles of nearly 2000 miles of border with Mexico needs a wall to be 100% effective.

    Huh?

    So Trumps wall turns out to be rater small effort.

    (For record, I would like to see substantial walls built in areas, but the biggest wall will not stop determined people getting across, either though, over, around, or under.)
     
  2. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #2
    I'm a little disappointed that you skipped the obvious joke about mending pences.
     
  3. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #3
    not the only thing small involved with the great cheeto.
     
  4. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #4
    “No – no – I reckon it wouldn’t hardly do, Ben. You see, Aunt Polly’s awful particular about this fence – right here on the street, you know – but if it was the back fence I wouldn’t mind and she wouldn’t. Yes, she’s awful particular about this fence; it’s got to be done very careful; I reckon there ain’t one boy in a thousand, maybe two thousand, that can do it the way it’s got to be done.”

    "Oh, shucks, I’ll be just as careful. Now lemme try. Say – I’ll give you the core of my apple."

    "Tom said to himself that it was not such a hollow world, after all. He had discovered a great law of human action, without knowing it – namely, that in order to make a man or a boy covet a thing, it is only necessary to make the thing difficult to attain."
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    What a ridiculous statement. 100% effectiveness is an impossible goal even if the wall spanned all 2,000 miles.
     
  6. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #6
    Call the Chinese!
    Thousands of years of expertise, GIANT wall seen from space, will work for rice, and was very effective at keeping the Mongols out.

    Oh... wait!
     
  7. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #7
    I've heard that is an urban legend, that the great wall of China is in fact not visible from space.
     
  8. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #8
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #9
    Everyone who spends any real time along the border has known that the "big beautiful wall" was balderdash written up for the xenophobes in the cheap seats.

    First, there's already 600 miles of fencing spread across all the places where it's easy to build a fence.

    Fully three-fifths of the U.S.-Mexico border is on watershed and that can't be walled up without creating one of the world's biggest damns and violating the International Boundary and Water Commission treaties, which guides how water from the U.S. flows into Mexico on the Colorado and how water from Mexico flows into the U.S. on the Rio Grande.

    Plus, there's a whole range of landowners along the borderlands who won't want Trump's beautiful wall on their land—and while Eminent Domain might force some Arizona ranchers to shut up—over/under on the Bundy revolutionaries showing u to protect the seizure of ranch land for Trumps wall?— the Tohono O'odham Nation has the legal power to tell the feds to go away.

    And, the wall won't solve border crime. Drugs still come through CBP ports in tons, and without mules, drug runners will just shift toward packing every vehicle that they can—which means fewer loads of marijuana and a lot more cocaine, heroin, and meth.

    Just this week, the Tucson Field Office picked up 350 pounds of meth worth around $1 million in the back of a semi-trailer carrying vegetables.

    Meanwhile, Haitians and Central Americans will do what they're already doing, which is turn themselves into the nearest agent and ask for asylum, and CBP officers won't have a choice unless we want to violate rules we've agreed to with the United Nations.

    In which case, the press of Central Americans will just funnel to El Paso, Nogales, and San Ysidro.

    And, fully 50 percent of the people in the country without authorization flew into the United States. What's the fastest growing population of unauthorized immigrants? Indians.

    While Judd and the rest of the Pep Boys who run the NBPC have bought into Trump's rhetoric, a whole bunch of line agents think the wall is stupid and are worried that a huge push for the wall will hurt them. As one agent asked, if they spend $60 billion on the wall, how are they going to find the money for trucks and gas to patrol that wall?

    Now, what's most likely to happen is the walls in Yuma, where a double-fence backed by surveillance cameras, armored gates, and dozens of agents, "secures" the border. It's one of the most effective uses of infrastructure, but apprehensions are going up in the sector as people scurry to the west and east. And, along the eastern region is the Barry Goldwater Range, an area reserved for the U.S. military for training. Even in this flat hostile desert where signs remind people that laser and live ammunition is present, people still attempt to cross.

    What we need to do is solve our immigration policy. And, we need a realistic drug policy. Every thing else is unrealistic garbage.
     
  10. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #10
    You write like building a wall is as difficult as sending a man to the moon. It's not. We'll do what has to be done to build the wall, and it will be beautiful.

    As for the drug dealers and such, they'll be funneled as you said to certain locations and then their illicit wares will be discovered and they'll be imprisoned.

    This really is too easy.
     
  11. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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  12. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #12
    So? We invented ground penetrating radar.
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    Well, of course, you went for the cliche analogue. It's not impossible, it's just harder that it looks and it's really stupid. Unlike the Interstate Highway System—a far better analogue—it won't create any long-term value for our $60 billion.

    Dealers are not smugglers. But, that technicality aside, smugglers are highly creative, and are increasingly focusing on subverting individual CBP officers and BP agents. Best case scenario, you seal the southern border approaches and smugglers shift to Canada and maritime approaches.

    A sign of a good play in football is that from the stands it looks easy. But, in reality that play requires a complex level of interactions and executions entirely unseen from people in the cheap seats.

    It's not "too easy." It's actually really complicated, difficult, and likely to fail.
     
  14. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    Nonsense. We build the wall and then our southern border is secure. We've seen the havoc that results from not having a protected border (Kathy Steinle ring a bell?), so if it does nothing else the wall will save many lives.

    But by sealing off the southern border, the wholesale smuggling of drugs and people will end.

    If the problem moves to Canada, we'll fix it there too.

    You're much too pessimistic.

    Now that the political solution is at hand, solving the engineering and law enforcement problems will be too easy.
     
  15. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #15
    Steinle's death doesn't support the construction of a $60 billion wall along the southwestern border. If anything, it proves that federal law enforcement officials should keep better track of their own firearms and that U.S. fails people with serious delusions.

    No, it won't. A large percentage of human smuggling is done on airlines into the United States. You might dent the movement of people into the United States through coyotes in the western Arizona desert, but people will still try to smuggle others in trunks or the back of semi-trailer trucks.

    You're naive.

    The political solutions have been rejected by hardliner conservatives, who would prefer to spend billions rather than just simply reform the U.S. immigration system and drug policies.
     
  16. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #16
    That's a dishonest response. Steinle is not the only innocent killed by illegals as I'm sure you know. I'm curious though, how many saved lives would justify a $60 billion wall?

    Oh sure, they'll try and then they'll be caught. Meanwhile the flood of illegal immigrants will have stopped, and the Democrats' hopes of changing demographics will have been stymied.

    Nothin' but love for you, m'man.

    Spend billions and permanently reform the immigration system when it comes to keeping hundreds of thousands of illegals from pouring across our border annually.
     
  17. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #17
    How's that working out so far? :p
     
  18. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

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    Far as I know, we're not using it. Yet.
     
  19. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #19
    Wouldn't it just be cheaper to have better gun control laws.
     
  20. steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #20
    blasphemy.
     
  21. bopajuice, Dec 3, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016

    bopajuice macrumors 6502a

    bopajuice

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    #21
    Just another walked back campaign promise. And he is not even in office yet.

    I am shocked Trump supporters would be surprised. He could get away with telling them just about anything during the election and they would believe him. If his team now says 600 miles is enough then it must be true right?

    I am sure his supporters can rationalize this and convince us it's enough? They are really good at this sort of thing.
     
  22. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #22
    its got to be some kind of record.
     
  23. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    How does that even make sense? Kathy Steinle was shot by an illegal alien, so what gun control law would have prevented him from getting his hands on a gun?
     
  24. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I'm not sure I understand your befuddlement. You probably need to think about it some more--perhaps you should think outside the box that the propagandists have oh so lovingly crafted for you.
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #25
    I'm sure Trump will spill the beans on twitter where the alien space ship is hiding and where to find those illegal aliens.
     

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