Wear a burqa - face a €750 fine

irishgrizzly

macrumors 65816
Original poster
May 15, 2006
1,461
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Draft legislation in France

Article

Excerpt:
Muslim women who wear the full Islamic veil in France will face a possible 750-euro (1,000-dollar) fine, according to a draft bill unveiled Thursday by the leader of the parliamentary majority.
The French feel that they are a barrier to integration. I think it may cause more problems then it solves, making Muslims feel more marginalised than they already are.
 

Creative One

macrumors 6502
Apr 25, 2009
404
1
Ontario
Thats terrible and unconstitutional!

/end rant...


Oh well if they don't like it they can go back to the middle east I guess?


I believe this might be better suited in PRSI?
 

Sptz

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2007
128
0
I'm sorry but I totally agree with this! I'm not a racist in any way. But if a woman goes to a middle-east country they have to adapt to their costumes and wear burqa's etc... If they want to come to a european country or american they must adapt to their costumes as well... If western women are forced to adapt to their costumes why shouldn't they be forced to adapt to ours? After all it's a choice they make, to go to another country to live or something.
 

Xfujinon

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2007
304
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Iowa City, Iowa
I'm sorry but I totally agree with this! I'm not a racist in any way. But if a woman goes to a middle-east country they have to adapt to their costumes and wear burqa's etc... If they want to come to a european country or american they must adapt to their costumes as well... If western women are forced to adapt to their costumes why shouldn't they be forced to adapt to ours? After all it's a choice they make, to go to another country to live or something.
You are not allowed to have this point of view. You are required to embrace "cultural diversity". You are not permitted to criticize, evaluate, comment upon, or give an opinion on any cultural issue.

Well, at least that is how it feels in the US.

I believe the association with the religion is the problem, not the fashion or cultural aspect of the veil that is problematic. This is just an opinion, too.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
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San Francisco, CA
I'm actually torn about this. I'm all about free speech and people being able to dress and express themselves and I absolutely think this is going too far but I don't think it's right how a lot of people move to a different country and don't try to adapt to the country's customs in any way. I'll give you a few examples too:

- I went to Amsterdam this last Summer, where there's a huge Muslim community. Whenever I passed by a Muslim group of people they would look at me like I was a hooker, simply for being dressed with shorts and a tshirt (instead of being covered head to toe like their women need to be). I don't think it's right that I'm dressed in an appropriate manner for the country I'm in but I'm the one that's uncomfortable (I'm sure I was insulted by them too).

- When I was there my aunt (that now lives there) told me a story about something that happened there that was a big deal: a muslim lawyer refused to stand up when the judge got in the courtroom because it's apparently against his religion to stand up for another man. Should THAT be accepted?

I had the exact same problem in Paris (although not as much because I was only there for one day) but just walking down the streets I would get followed and harassed by random muslim men.
 

Rampant.A.I.

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2009
579
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I'm sorry but I totally agree with this! I'm not a racist in any way. But if a woman goes to a middle-east country they have to adapt to their costumes and wear burqa's etc... If they want to come to a european country or american they must adapt to their costumes as well... If western women are forced to adapt to their costumes why shouldn't they be forced to adapt to ours? After all it's a choice they make, to go to another country to live or something.
Hate to say it, but I'm inclined to agree.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
I'm sorry but I totally agree with this! I'm not a racist in any way. But if a woman goes to a middle-east country they have to adapt to their costumes and wear burqa's etc... If they want to come to a european country or american they must adapt to their costumes as well... If western women are forced to adapt to their costumes why shouldn't they be forced to adapt to ours? After all it's a choice they make, to go to another country to live or something.
Costumes?

I thought that France/US would want to lead by example in acceptance of other cultures,not try to stamp them out...
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,366
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Los Angeles
I'm sorry but I totally agree with this! I'm not a racist in any way. But if a woman goes to a middle-east country they have to adapt to their costumes and wear burqa's etc... If they want to come to a european country or american they must adapt to their costumes as well... If western women are forced to adapt to their costumes why shouldn't they be forced to adapt to ours? After all it's a choice they make, to go to another country to live or something.
So two wrongs make a right? Instead of, out of spite apparently, supporting more laws dictating how women can behave in public why not back initiatives that support a woman's right to think for herself regardless of what country she is in?


Lethal
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,300
10,373
UK
Do they have freedom of speech in France?
Yes

This is much like Minaret ban in Switzerland, totally over the top and only serves to fuel extremism...
Its not the same, even in Malaysia it was pretty rare to see women wearing one. Additionally it is generally oppressive, often women who you do see wearing them look pretty scared of their husbands.

That said on one of the occasions when I did see it in Malaysia - the man was wearing jeans and a shirt - i.e. western clothes I thought he was a hypocrite, though she looked like she enjoyed her husbands company, so in that case it was probably a free choice.

This is a complex issue, which is much less black and white than the minaret ban (which was obviously wrong).

The burqa is not a religious item but a cultural one. Just want to clear that up. And the veil part is called a Niqab. The burqa is the whole nine yards, head to toe.
True.

PS FWIW it seems to include the form where the eyes are veiled and the form where the eyes aren't veiled, which is less oppressive.
 

smwatson

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2005
961
6
London, England
It's banning the covering of the face in public places. It's like when hoodies were banned in that shopping centre, only countrywide.

Seems fair.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
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UK
It's like when hoodies were banned in that shopping centre, only countrywide.
The thing is that shopping centres are private property so they can do what they like within reason. Public space is different - banning hoodies in public would be outrageous.

That's not a fair comparison and you know it.
Well I suppose that as g4cubed points out you would (probably) uncover your face when you enter a building. But otherwise why isn't it a fair comparison?
 

XnavxeMiyyep

macrumors 65816
Mar 27, 2003
1,132
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Washington
Banning them in certain situations (such as when entering a bank or other place where one needs to be identified) is pretty obvious. Also, as quoted in the article,
Jean-Francois Cope, who heads the governing UMP party in the National Assembly, told Le Figaro newspaper's weekly magazine that men who force their wives to wear the burqa or niqab could face an even heavier fine.
, this aspect of the law makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure what to make of banning the burqa entirely, but considering it's illegal to go outside fully nude for instance, laws banning an outfit aren't particularly inconsistent.
 

Queso

Suspended
Mar 4, 2006
11,832
7
I actually agree. The burka has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with sustaining male dominance in Arab society.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
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Banning them in certain situations (such as when entering a bank or other place where one needs to be identified) is pretty obvious.
Also, as quoted in the article, , this aspect of the law makes perfect sense.
Agreed.

The burka has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with sustaining male dominance in Arab society.
Basically true. And as long as that is really the reason you're doing it it is a "good thing" However:

banning hoodies in public would be outrageous.
So I'm still torn.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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Penryn
Don't most people unwrap them off their face when they enter a building/place.

Whole different thing there.
Exactly, I'm sure the few hardy cyclists around the UK right now are either wearing a balaclava or a scarf wrapped around their faces. They do it for practical reasons and banning it would be insane.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
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Exactly, I'm sure the few hardy cyclists around the UK right now are either wearing a balaclava or a scarf wrapped around their faces. They do it for practical reasons and banning it would be insane.
Banning those ludicrous Lycra outfits, however, would be doing everyone a favour.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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Banning those ludicrous Lycra outfits, however, would be doing everyone a favour.
Would you ban footie apparel?

There's a time and a place for everything. I usually only wear lycra on long rides on my road bike. It's comfortable, doesn't chafe, brightly colored (for all those inattentive drivers) and it doesn't cling when wet.

Sure, lots of people who don lycra view it as the next best thing to a "Superman" uniform and become total ****s. Maybe there could be a special ASBO classification for those who misuse lycra?