Welcome to USA! Welcome to the 3rd World, Home of low wage, no benefit jobs.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Ugg, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #1
    LA Times

    Well, the right has gotten what it wants. Low wages, no benefits, non-union jobs.

    What next? Reintroduction of slavery?
     
  2. ender land macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    #2
    Sounds like a pretty convincing reason to move to Sweden if you are an American.
     
  3. SuperCachetes macrumors 6502a

    SuperCachetes

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Location:
    Away from you
    #3
    Government-mandated vacation??? Why, those socialists! The damn government can keep its filthy hands outta my- hey, wait a minute... Did you say 5 weeks? :p
     
  4. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #4
    Is all relative. If you take my home country, it'll be around $1.32/hour pay for minimum wage. You get 2 weeks vacation and equivalent pay. Oh and down there they treat you like crap because of the infuriating high 35% unemployment rate. So everyone looks out for their job even if it means sucking up.

    Here in the US you can fight it. So yeah. Also Europe has more taxes than the US. Consecuently we get taxed even lower than the US. But still $315.50 a month is barely covering cost of living even for my country.

    Care to complain now?
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #5
    Canada is sounding awfully good to me right now.
     
  6. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    London
    #6
    Not quite true that "Europeans" have a minimum wage of $18/hour. Remember conditions in the UK, France, Germany, Spain etc will be quite different to say Romania and Slovakia (but they will still have minimum standards set by the EU).

    Later this year the UK minimum wage will be £6.08 for adults. That's $9.96 today, so $10. Presuming 5 day working week the minimum holiday amount is 28 days (5.6 weeks). The employer can control when you take time off, but can't be silly about it.

    Loads of other stuff as well makes it complex. For example, you must either have 24 continual hours off in a 7 day period or 48 continual hours in 14.

    Remember, we have high taxes (~20% VAT etc) but better public services in general. The UK average house price is £232k ($380k), I understand your average is ~$280k.

    Swings and roundabouts!
     
  7. MikhailT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    #7
    There's also one other thing:

    Sweden | 9.29 million people
    United States | 309 million people
    (2010 estimates)

    Population does count. We probably have 10 Swedens worth of people that are in the same situation as Sweden itself.

    Sadly, it does appear that USA is on a downward slide with all the problems lately but we could still recover if we could just do something about it.
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #8
    How?

    Wouldn't a greater population create more demand for a product?

    If population is such an issue, how is China able to succeed?
     
  9. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #9
    If you calculate where personal income goes, the US has effectively similar tax rates to most of Europe, just more of it goes to private business instead of the government. The structure of the legal system supports funneling our money upward in a manner that is functionally indistinguishable from privatized taxation. Lamentably, the ROI on privatization, AFAICT, is far lower in the private sector (compare the benefit/overhead ratio of Medicare to most private insurance companies). Personally, I would take government services over more costly, lower quality private services every freaking time.

    The dynamic that the US faces right now is similar to north Africa and the Arabian peninsula: as those in power work out more ways to benefit from the misery of the essentially powerless, more and more people are acquiring less and less to lose. The tipping point will be when the sheer volume of despair overtops the levee of hope. The Prince describes these cycles of society. What follows may well be a slight revision of its antecedent, unless we can somehow refer to history to discover some way to break the cycle.
    Swindon?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. samiwas, Apr 10, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011

    samiwas macrumors 65816

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    Atlanta, GA
    #10
    Yep. I used to date a girl from Sweden (mmmm). She would come to visit me all the time while I was out on tour, for several days or even a week at a time. I, as an American, asked how she could get so much time off work with just a day's notice and be able to afford to come see me in other countries. She said she had the right to call out at any time, for however long she wanted (up to her allotted time), AND GET PAID, due to the worker's rules in that country. I think they also have some ridiculous maternity leave like 16 months for BOTH PARENTS, shared somehow. I must say, that is a nice way to do it.

    The US doesn't even have required paid maternity leave, and I believe is one of the only countries in the world not to. Most Americans can't even take their time because they need the money or their employer simply won't let them. Yet, we're the awesome capitalists and have it better than everyone else! :rolleyes:

    Where the F is THAT???
     
  11. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Washington D.C
    #11
    Sometimes, I don't buy bigger populations means anything, but in this case, I buy it....first off, we have more people, which means more viewpoints, more people who have to agree in congress to do ANYTHING about it, 2nd off, our policies have to be effective to a larger degree.

    Say we both have the same unemployment rate,the Sweeden help 50% of the unemployed and we do the same. Sweeden has X unemployed, we'd have 33.3X unemployed, so they have way few less people who would be unhappy and move to do anything. We'd still have a tons of unemployed. The 2nd point is more related to unemployment in general then wage issues specifically.

    I'm not saying all our issues with pay are due only to our size, but it does effect how we need to function.
     
  12. Joshuarocks macrumors 6502

    Joshuarocks

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    Mar 12, 2011
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    Somewhere in Cyberspace
    #12
    This is a problem in the making..

    The USA is on borrowed time. Unless the US can drastically make changes, things are really going to get worse.. as if they aren't all ready. Already, the corporate run media reports everything is getting much better.. I don't believe this over a hill of beans.. Consider this:

    Job market still sucks.. unemployment in the US is over 10 percent despite what the media says being 8.9 percent..

    Economy isn't really growing much at all.. at best 2 percent growth which does not mean its getting better.

    The trillions of debt this country is in.. I fear within the next few years the debt is going to get higher + rising gas and food prices.. and most Americans are too stupid and blind to the corporate media saying things are ok.. I should know. I am struggling with gas and almost had a fight with someone at a gas station because I called for a REVOLT against the corporations controlling out lives(gas companies and the middle east OPEC).

    3rdly, cost of living is rising, and food... So, is the US getting better? Hardly.. and no one seems to care or want to do something to change it.. The solution proposed by Congressman Ron Paul..

    Complete ABOLIITION of the Federal Reserve and a repeal of the 1917-1919 federal reserve signed by Woodrow Wilson.. and also an end to the IRS and its tyrannical strangle hold on the citizenry..

    The American people should take ownership of corporations and not allow corporations and banks to rule over the people.

    Only then will America be able to recover from all of its ills.. and if someone can't recommend Ron Paul for 2012 presidency, then we have signed this country's death warrant.

    And yes, the recession is not over.. in fact, we might even be heading into economic depression very shortly.

    Its not about capitalism here.. its about ENDING CORPORATE RULE and BANKS ruling over us all.

    Its time for Americans to take back the country from corporate elites and banks. DOWN WITH THE FEDERAL RESERVE!!! Power to the PEOPLE!
     
  13. barkomatic macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Location:
    Manhattan
    #13
    What's hard in the U.S. is that most people make a modest or poor salary--yet the culture is very materialistic and there is a lot of pressure to buy so many luxury goods and services. At least in third world countries, your friends aren't pressuring you to take extravagant vacations you can't afford or go out to expensive restaurants.
     
  14. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #14
    Sorta right here. However, I see it as companies advertising them as price/wallet friendly while still being able to look/feel good like the rich people.
     
  15. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    On tenterhooks
    #15
    Ridiculous? Not quite, from the parent's perspective.

    In Canada we have 12 months maternity leave, which can be taken by either spouse, or split, 6 months/6 months.

    We would call that absence of traffic.
     
  16. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #16
    You also need to add in the ball and chain that is suburban/exurban hell. Some people are chained to their five acres willingly, but many are chained to suburbia due to poor planning caused by cheap oil. The added expense of owning two or three vehicles and maintaining a suburban home on a suburban sized lot, means a lot less money for other things. People bought into the false promises of suburbia and are now paying the price.
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    Hartford, CT
    #17
    This is the end product of capitalism and/or neoliberal policies. Look into "the race to the bottom" in terms of international relations.

    All by design. All well understood, but rarely spoken about to the public.
     
  18. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    Oct 26, 2008
    #18
    People have been but are written off as being "out there"
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    May 18, 2008
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    #19
    Exactly. Anyone not participating in making the problem worse (aka, our political system as currently structured and the media) is immediately cast out by those of influence.

    Until a radical shift in our system happens, such as 3rd parties somehow becoming viable, these things will only continue. Institutions are self perpetuating and reinforcing, unless changed from the bottom (the only place such a change can possibly occur), the problems this country faces will only be contributed to and not combated.
     
  20. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    totally cool
    #20
    This sounds like IKEA is the one being a bitch.

    I can't see how this is "the right's" fault. If so, why doesn't "the left" step in a help out?
     
  21. squeeks macrumors 68040

    squeeks

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    Jun 19, 2007
    Location:
    Florida
    #21
    you guys do realize gas is like 9 dollars a gallon in europe right?
     
  22. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    Aug 17, 2009
    #22
    Swindon England : 55° 33' 46" N by 1° 46' 17" W
    First, we need to institute total no-opt-out public financing of all elections. Then we should explore something like an inflexible expiration for all corporate charters, say 9 years (about half a patent term). Dissolution would begin by satisfying the investors and then proceed to establishing non-incorporated component businesses to maintain (if necessary) the products/services the corporation had established, creating a coöperative arrangement if appropriate.

    Right now, long-lived large business has replaced the problem that the dynamic democratic republic was supposed to address. We have no official peerage, but what we do have is almost indistinguishable.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    May 18, 2008
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    Hartford, CT
    #23
    And this one random arbitrary fact is relevant....how?

    Not to mention that it completely ignores the differences in culture regarding transportation. America is set up with cars being the main type of transport. Most European countries don't have this set up.

    Knowing this, you then must acknowledge that many don't have the crazy subsidies we have on gas that gives it the appearance of being cheap, only because at the end stage the price tag is lower.

    So, after taking this into consideration, what exactly was the point of this apples to oranges comment? :confused:
     
  24. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Washington D.C
    #24
    Well with a minimum wage of 19 bucks I imagine it is not as much of any issue as it is in America. Plus European countries aren't nearly the size of the United States, so driving is done less.(also likely one of the reasons for less drinking and driving accidents and deaths...along with being introduced to drinking at a younger age in most countries there)
     
  25. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #25
    That would be a great start. America needs to seriously address the way we let corporations run the show, starting with how we view them in the first place. Corporations don't have a self fulfilling right to exists.

    In fact, the funny thing about those rallying against unions today, fail to recognize that corporations are essentially a form of union.
     

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