Well, let me show you my new workstation, it seemed very much like nMP 3999$

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by drmyfore, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. drmyfore macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #1
    CPU: Xeon E5-1650 V2 (3.5GHz, 6 cores) 583 USD
    Memory: Samsung PC3-14900R 16G * 8 (DDR3 1866 REG ECC) each 155 USD
    MB: SuperMicro X9SRA (C602, two Gigabit Ethernet Ports) 290 USD
    Graphic Card: AMD W7000 * 2 (GDDR5 4G *2) each 650 USD
    PSU: Delta DPS-1200QB B (1200W 80Plus Platium, and also have PMBUS link) 300 USD
    Wireless Card: Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 for Desktop (Include Bluetooth 4.0) 50 USD

    the Price is: 583+155*8+290+650*2+300+50=3763 USD

    the detail pic is
    http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/drmyforever/CSTT_zpsb29bf314.png~original

    Attention: the pic is only show 4 dimms (16GB *4); but now I have already installed 8 dimms (16GB * 8 = 128GB).
     
  2. MacMilligan macrumors 6502

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    Aug 2, 2012
  3. hugodrax macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    #3
    You forgot to add the 256gb Samsung 840 pro ssd price

    And the thunderbolt adapter card price

    And the oem windows license cost as well.

    Plus the case to put it in cost

    And your time cost.
     
  4. dexum175 macrumors member

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    Jan 12, 2013
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    United States
  5. drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #5
    Well, I have 128GB memory(compared with only 32GB Memory in 3999$ nMP), I have 8GB VRAM(compared with only 6GB in 3999$ nMP)


    Well, although the OS is Windows:)
     
  6. drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #6
    That is to say, if I cut 6 memorys(leave 2 * 16GB memory like 3999$ nMP), I can save 930$, and the 930$ is enough to buy Windows 8.1 Pro(199$) and Samsung 840 EVO 1TB (599$, and the 3999$ nMP only offer 256GB), there are also 930-199-599=232$

    I only cost 3500USD, and have more DP ports(8 ports) and more garphic memory(8GB).
     
  7. mrsavage1, Oct 22, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    mrsavage1 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    #7
    Where is the chasis?
    where did u get 1866mhz ram that is ecc?
    The new mac pro's ssds are way faster than samsung 840 evos, your gonna have to put in pci-e raid ssds.
    Where are your thunderbolt 2 Adapters, those aren't just dp ports their thunderbolt 2 ports.
    Time cost to ressearch and build the device?
    Can you get close to the form factor of the new mac pro?
    What type of fan system will you be using?
    Will your machine be as quiet as the new mac pro?

    I just realised you joined this forum in oct 2013 haha. You practically created an account just to post this. You probably never even used a mac before. Seems like your guy from China that just puts together hardware to get bench scores to show off.
     
  8. marbeljoyce macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    #8
    you gotta be borderline retarded to believe that apple's logo changes the hardware price.

    match hardware and builds, and yes don't forget machined mac pro case plus size, and Windows machine will be same if not more expensive.
     
  9. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #9
    Looks great and all, but there are two issues:
    1) It's not a Mac;
    2) It will not fit underneath the seat in front of me when I fly.
     
  10. drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #10
    1. my chassis is ABEE S6G, I don't like the design of rounded rectangle;
    2. All ram is Samsung DDR3 1866 REG ECC, which the part no. is M393B2G70BH0-CMA;
    3. at the same price, I offer 1TB SSD, well, I also can offer 512G *2 at RAID0, in this case, I will get the same performance as nMP, and the volume is 1TB not 256GB(nMP);
    4. Thunderbolt only can connect ext storage and Display Device, I think I don't need it;
    5. ressearch and build time cost is what? I don't understand;
    6. yeah, you are right. I can't get the same form factor of nMP, but I like my S6G;
    7. My fan system is within five quiet fans, each fans run at 700rpm(fixed), of course, you can't fell the mute degree of my system, I can only say that, When the system is running at full load, I still can't hear a noise, because the good air duct and cooling system, my workstation is cool and quiet.

    Well, I am from CHINA, I was only interested in FirePro D series.
    nMP is a work of Art.

    ----------

    Yeah, I agree with you.
    Mac is Mac, cannot be replaced.
    About the Q2, I can only say that, my chassis is also very small:)
     
  11. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #11
    I forgot to mention your machine looks great. Just if I need a Mac to do my Mac stuff. :p
     
  12. drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #12
    No, I'm not ignoring the cost of design and manufacturing.
    I just want to show you that the same is 4000 USD, Windows platform can provide what kind of hardware configuration.
    I did not detract from nMP.Of course, there is no doubt that nMP is a work of Art.

    Thanks for you reply.
     
  13. mrsavage1 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    #13

    What's cost price now with the raid ssds, the fans and chasis? and you still have no thunderbolt 2 adapters.

    Those are theoratical maximums that the raid might reach. You will have to prove it by actually putting 2 together and raiding them. I want to see the benchmarks and show that pound for pound you can beat the speeds.

    With the tb2 the nMacPro has far greater expandability than the workstation that you have right now. 6 x 6 devices.

    I am sorry i've heard the fans in those workstations there's no way you could beat just 1 fan which is super large. And 5 fans to boot.

    Whare are you getting this 150 price for the samsung rams i can't find it.

    "ressearch and build time cost is what? I don't understand" Evaluate how much the cost of your time spent researching and sourcing for the parts and time spent building it together/

    Dude your chasis is huge compared to the nMacPro. Have u looked at the dimensions of it?

    I just realised that the nMP would likely be drawing less energy than your machine. So your burning more power and money daily.

    ----------

    You have not shown that a windows platform can beat the build of materials. Because you have skipped and decided to ignore technology that you can't find alternatives for and then declaring well if there's no alternative hell i'll just say its not important to me. You haven't proven anything.
     
  14. drmyfore, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #14
    1. each Samsung 840 EVO 500G is 339$, RAID 0 need two, 339$ * 2(and I get 1TB space), do you think how much is fan? I can tell you each fan cost 10$. Well, I bought a very expensive chassis, because of its beauty:D
    2. It is obviously that the performance of RAID0, I don't need to prove to you how fast is it.
    3. TB2 can ONLY connect storage devices now. I don't need it.
    4. I forgive your question for my system noise:p
    5. the price of my RAM is exactly 155 USD(945 CNY).
    6. I cost 2 days research and build my system, but nMP need 2 months.
    7. Well, less energy and less performance.(In fact I use this PSU only because PMBUS) and my WS's idle power is under 100W.
    8. I think, emm, the one who decide to ignore Tech is you, I'm so sorry to tell you about your poor knowledge of PC. I'm not saying my machine can replace nMP, and my WS isn't an alternative of nMP, they are two different.
    At last, I don't want to prove something.

    Thanks,

    Shawn
     
  15. mrsavage1, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    mrsavage1 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    #15

    1 how much is the entire build then? Again your retreating from your position. Take out that chassis put in a cheap one then and recalculate the cost of it.
    2. you do need to. The theoretical performance has to shown all your saying is hyperbole. Can it beat 1.2 gb/s reads and 1.0gb/s writes?
    http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5801/samsung-840-evo-500gb-raid-0-ssd-report/index.html
    says reads would not be anywhere near that speed.
    3. Again it shows your retreating from the question. Your parts are not comparable. Your basically saying that you don't need it so it shouldn't be in your build. Then do you need the 6 core haswell? Maybe a user won't need that type of power so it should be removed from your build as well.
    4. Your basically throwing in the towel here why don't your record the sound of your rig prove its as quiet as you say. I just can't believe you.
    5. Where is this pricing from? Which website?
    6. You obviously don't understand the question. Do you understand english?
    7. I don't think your understand your using an entire motherboard and the cards are full sized you going to be using more electricity. You have 5 fans. And I am not even counting the ones in the w7000 that would be a total of 7 fans. Its not even mechanically possible that you are using less electricity.
    8. "I just want to show you that the same is 4000 USD, Windows platform can provide what kind of hardware configuration." isn't that a statement of trying to prove something?

    In my eyes you haven't proven anything. Your build is just a build to trying to suit your hypothesis of "I have a windows platform for the nMacPro" by ignoring certain parts of the MacPro. Trying to state that features are unnecessary when it suits your purposes.

    I also find it very weak that you keep trying to play on the mac is artistic blah so i put in a beautiful case that case is just a rectangular block, there's nothing beautiful about it.
     
  16. juanml82 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    #16
    Well, we don't have benchmarks of the nMP SSD either so if he benchmarks them, what are you going to compare it to?

    As for thunderbolt, yes, it's for storage only. His workstation probably has PCI-E. Whether he needs TB storage or not, it's up to his workflow.
     
  17. slughead macrumors 68040

    slughead

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    #17
    I'm LOL at everyone poo-pooing this setup because it doesn't have Thunderbolt2.

    What the hell do you need TB for if you have a decent number of PCIe slots (note I haven't looked up the mobo to see how many there are)?

    For the 5-frillionth time: One 8x PCIe 3.0 slot has more bandwidth than all 6 of the TB2 ports on the nMP combined.

    Equally odd is the statement "but can I put it under the seat in front of me on an airplane?" Yes, because I'm sure that was the number one feature People want out of a desktop PC.

    And the answer is obviously no, but: After you've bought all the external Thunderbolt storage to bring your nMP to a useable capacity, you can't fit that under the seat in front of you either. What good is bringing your Computer with you if you have none of your data??

    As far as this setup: I'm sure you can create a better one for the price.
     
  18. mrsavage1 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    #18
    They gave the reads and writes information already.

    Yes it up to his workflow but he's marketing his build as something comparable to the mac pro which it is not.
     
  19. drmyfore thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    #19
    First of all, I don't want to prove something, I don't know why you insist that I should prove sth.
    1.like 3999 model, I give you this list
    CPU: 583 USD
    Memory: 60*4 USD
    MB: 300USD
    Graphic Card: 600 *2(I cut the 2GB VRAM)USD
    PSU: 150 USD (the best under 600w 80plus platium certified)
    WirelessCard: 50 USD
    All above is about 2700, I still have 1300 to buy chassis and ssd, do you agree with me?
    2. I needn't.
    3. I don't need tb2, Must I add tb2 adapter price? I can install other cheap and performance PCIe card, not expensive TB device.
    4. If you want, please don't believe me, and I don't care.
    5. China is world factory, we have almighty taobao.
    6. HAHA, I do understand you question, but you don't understand my answer, maybe my english is poor, but I needn't pay 2 months to wait new WS for my job.
    7. 5 fans,each fans max power is 1.44W, but my speed is half speed I don't know why you are so mechanically?
    8. There's nothing else to say.

    Thanks,

    Shawn

    ----------

    In that case, I give you two 840 EVO 500G RAID0, you said the performance is not enough, but I have nothing to say, If I replace two 840 EVO 500G to four 840 EVO 250G? 2GB/s, does 256G nMP keep up with it? We offer the same price:)

    Not once have I stressed that Mac is the work of art, that is not to say that I love the art, I hate the rounded rectangle, but I have no intention to offend others choose apple production's rights.

    ----------

    Having said that, the official data and real data are often different, but even so, you can't deny the 256G PCIe SSD can't keep up with four 840 EVO RAID0 with SAME PRICE.
     
  20. memory4me macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Location:
    Wild Wild West
    #20
    I am very interested in the purchasing this Samsung memory. Can you tell me where I can buy it?


     
  21. Umbongo macrumors 601

    Umbongo

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Location:
    England
    #21
    Email Superbiiz and see when they will get it in.
     
  22. JavaTheHut macrumors 6502

    JavaTheHut

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    Aug 15, 2010
  23. BJonson macrumors 6502a

    BJonson

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    #23
    What you get from Apple is dedicated hardware integration, testing and support. That is invaluable. No Dell or HP will ever come close to what Apple can provide on the hardware integration front. Apples components are chosen and designed to work together without problems. That is the beauty of the mac. That said the New Mac Pro sucks. :D
     
  24. brdeveloper macrumors 68020

    brdeveloper

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Location:
    Brasil
    #24
    Great DIY work! I'm not so fanatic to the point of not using Windows. Computers are like DSLR cameras. If you aren't too much tied into an ecosystem, it doesn't care if it's Canon, Nikon, Pentax or Sony. To be honest, I'd like using my vintage FD and K lenses on a full-frame mirrorless body, but this is not viable yet.

    Your machine has some valuable advantages over a nMP:
    - it's easily expandable;
    - you can easily change processors putting faster ones in the near future;
    - you can find standard form-factor SSDs pretty easily in the market making a RAID0 with them... and, c'mon, who needs a PCIe SSD if you have 128GB RAM???? You basically load all your stuff once in the primary memory and the RAID0 SSDs will give you all the speed you need for persistence tasks.

    No way you're gonna convince me a Mac Pro will be worthier than this beast. Ok, it's portable, but a Mac Mini is also portable. If you want EXTREME performance, you don't give too much s*** for portability.

    Congratulations. Of course a Mac Pro is a faster way of getting a nice workstation, but it's not a good deal if you don't care with portability or OSX. As I said, I love OSX, but I can live pretty well with Ubuntu or Windows 7.
     
  25. wallysb01 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    #25
    But you're trying to define comparable as equal to. They don't have to be the same to be comparable for most jobs. Does it have a PCIe SSD? No, but 2xSSD in RAID0 is pretty close for most uses. And....he could add one if he wanted. Sure, it would be more money, but the nMP expansion prices are high all over the place, so if you really want to keep up this tick-for-tack thing, trying to match the total performance as exactly a possible, you'll lose.

    For example, here is my machine:

    2x2630s (sandy bridge)
    supermicro X9DAi
    Supermicro SuperChassis 743TQ-1200B-SQ
    1x1TB bootdrive
    4x3TB in RAID5
    2x4TB in RAID1 (ie 14 TB of total space after 2 redundant disks in the whole system)
    DVD player
    8x16 GB RAM (room for 8 more)
    Microsoft wired keyboard/mouse
    23" inch monitor
    NVIDIA GT 520
    OS - Ubuntu 12.04

    Total sytem cost is now around $6000 (was just over $5K originally, but added 2x4TB recently).

    The nMP is probably going to be $4999 or more with the 8 core, which might be the closest performance-wise to my 2x2630s (though maybe not, the 12x2.7 would be faster, but might be closer for heavily threaded stuff like what I often do). Then you need to add ~$1K for the RAM and you some how need to get a mirrored 4TB thunderbolt enclosure and either a RAID0/5 (I'd go raid 0 if I started from scratch now) space up to ~9TB. If you're trying to do that with thunderbolt, you're looking at at least $2K. Plus a few hundred more for a monitor and keyboard/mouse. So, that system is easily upto $8-9K. And I bought my machine about a year ahead of when the nMP will be available.

    Yeah, my system has a 1TB HDD as the boot drive and the nMP will have the PCI-SSD, but I don't care. Almost everything I work with is going to using/creating files that exceed 1TB anyway, so the PCI-SSD is moot.

    Yeah, my system doesn't have thunderbolt, but I don't care. I have 8 internal drive bays and 2 DVD slots that could be converted if needed. I have 2 USB3 ports for some cheap external backups that would be the same on the nMP. However on the nMP I'd also need 2 thunderbolt RAID divises or one huge one for $$$$$$.

    Yeah, my system has a crappy GT 520, but I don't care. All of my work is parallel CPU bound. The only things on my screen are text/table files, terminal and firefox. And if GPGPU computing ever enters my field, guess what, I could add cards to do that then!

    Yeah, I installed Ubuntu and maintain it myself, which is work, but I don't care. Configuring OSX for what I do is actually a bit of pain, even compared to installing/maintaining a linux box. See in linux I can just type sudo apt-get install xxxx for many of the things that need to be specially compiled and installed along with a host of dependancies to get working on a Mac. So neither option is "maintance" free. The only real draw back to my machine is that I have to run a virtual machine to get Windows products, which I absolutely need from time to time (Libre Office is good enough in a pinch, but if it needs to look professional, it sucks).

    Anyway the point of this is what is comparable is relative. The two systems I just described are comparable for me but grossly different in configuration. One would probably be $2-3K more than the other and come with stuff I don't really need (ie 2 pretty nice GPUs and a PCI-SSD). The cheaper one comes with almost nothing I don't need, except maybe that DVD player I used once to install the system when I could have easily used a flash drive instead.

    Maybe now you understand that the issue with the nMP is not so much the price, but the fact that its so expensive to make it what you need it to be given that it come with some pretty expensive stuff many people don't need (looking directly at the 2x custom AMD Firepros and absent space where SATA connections should be).
     

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