We're all probably in trouble with this...


Ambrose Chapel

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,141
3
Massachusetts
VDT?

Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.
 

ShaolinMiddleFinger

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2001
745
0
It's all true. I go through those symptoms....sometimes. I resolve my problems by taking at least a fifteen minute break away from the computer ever two hours.
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Original poster
Nov 1, 2001
22,407
0
VA
Re: VDT?

Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.
CRT are worse than LCDs, but staying in front of a computer all day, just sitting on your ass, can give you back aches and such. So you're eyes might feel better, but you muscles won't notice the difference.

D
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,111
0
San Diego, CA
"This result suggested that the effect of duration of daily VDT use on these scores has a threshold effect, and the prevention of mental disorder and sleep disorder requires the restriction of VDT use to less than 5 hours per day," the researchers write.
Crap...I'd never get anything done if I could only spend 5 hours a day at my computer.

The bad thing about this is that I belive TV falls under the same category...so if you spend 8 hours with the computer at work and then another 2 or so hours with TV at home, you're looking at 10 hours of VDT time...aack!!!
 

MisterBlack

macrumors member
Nov 4, 2002
60
0
I am a living testament to this study. I could have told you all of this when i was eight, playing nintendo and watching tv all weekends long.

Now i'm all too familiar with that dull headache that nests in behind the eyes and won't go away for nothing.

My boss doesn't let the employees here have breaks, unless you smoke cigarettes. Then you can have all the breaks you want in a day. So i started smoking cigarettes again. I had to stop again for the same reason i had to stop in the first place. That being, when i smoke cigarettes, i start spitting out increasing amounts of blood, which comes from my lungs.
I can't sleep at night, and when i wake up in the morning I'm tired and have to force myself to go to work. I almost got fired last week for calling in sick. Now i force myself even more. I've been getting sicker. I wake up nights with headaches. My back goes out randomly; it went out yesterday while i was driving my car. I spend eight hours a day at work in front of a computer, with no breaks of course. I edit high-resolution images for a stock digital image company all day long, and my eyes start aching after about an hour.
Of course, i'm not going to stay away from my home computer just because the work computers are trying to kill me. So the effects are compounded because i just get on the internet when i get home from work, to tune out the fact that i'm just going to have to get up and go to work in a couple of hours again.


"Every day is worse than the day before...so...every time you see me, it's on the worst day of my life...."
 

diorio

macrumors 6502a
Aug 22, 2002
774
0
If you take some time to get some excersise like Dukestreet says, you probably won't be as effected by this problem.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,009
Republic of Ukistan
Speaking for myself...

Personally, I find that sitting in front of an ACD screen seven or eight hours a day interspersed with a couple of dog-walks and a break for a spliff every hour or so leaves me fresh as a daisy....:p
 

big

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2002
1,074
0
by law, you are allowed a fifteen minute break every 2 hours, and a 30 min break (as well) every eight hours incraments. So if you have a ten hour work day (Like I do) You get a 1 hour lunch (or two 1/2 hours) and 5 fifteen minute breaks I guess.

by law, though I take a 15 min break at 10 am, 1 hour lunch @ 1pm, then another 15 min @ 3 pm. It works well, and goes along with my coffee breaks too!

weeeeeeeee! caffiene!
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
I definitely don't like to work. I like to work on computers though.
I just don't like to physical labor - Im strong and fit bc of
a lot of basketball and martial arts (not trying to gloat), but doing
physical work that I don't enjoy bothers me greatly. Working on
computers makes me happy. So I have that. And I only barely
skimmed the article, but did they not say something about
sleeping disorders. Well, I got that too - I have 'selective'
insomnia. My insomnia seems to have a mind of its own.
Sometimes I will be able to sleep 30 minutes after I go to bed
(I wish that happened more often) and sometimes it will take up
to 4 hours. I already have to wake up early for school, and
sometimes I have to go to school early for help in my classes,
and so getting 3 and 4 hours of sleep every night just isn't
helping... I have had this 'disorder' ever since I can remember -
so I doubt it has anything to do with the computer.
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Original poster
Nov 1, 2001
22,407
0
VA
Originally posted by MisterBlack
IMy boss doesn't let the employees here have breaks, unless you smoke cigarettes.
Big is right, you need to find the laws in written form and show them to your boss and get your breaks.

But that would be just until you actually get a new job - don't put up with that crap and move on.

D
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
Originally posted by MacBandit
I don't need to sit in from of a computer for 5 hours a day to not want to go to work in the morning.:)
same here, but for school. I take that back... I like school, but
I hate Home work. That study doesn't really apply to me
because I fit the descriptions of the 'symptoms' but they are
(for me) all inborn qualities.
 

gairloch

macrumors newbie
Sep 4, 2002
22
0
Montréal
CRT Scan Frequency

Just a look around any Window$-using office and you will likely notice that the refresh scan rates of most monitors are not good. They all shake. WinXP in most cases does a reasonable job of picking up the fastest scan rate of a particular card-monitor combination, but 95, 98 & ME always defaulted to just about the lowest possible refresh rate. Unless users are savy enough to know how to change the refresh rate they spend years looking at a text coming at them @60 or 75 Hz - I can't stand even 10 seconds at anything less that 85Hz.

I'm no researcher, but I imagine this would be a large factor in any eye strain or stress coming from computer use.

I'm a new Mac user - OSX only. (I started with Jaguar). On 5 different computers I have seen X always find the best refresh rate automatically. Did previous Mac OSes do this?
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
2,495
0
Miami
Re: VDT?

Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.
You are making the most stupid comment. The research is not based on what kind of monitor you are using, is based on your habits.

All of you, quit being so materialist, I do not have a Herman Miller chair and I do not suffer from back injuries. Pay attention to this.

I can tell I experienced most of the symptoms:
1. Anxiety: I'm always going to the kitchen to eat something.
2. Eye fatigue: Of course, no matter what kind of monitor I use. When that happen I combine my anxiety with the eye rest and take a look to the horizon, that helps a lot.
3. Headaches: NO, usually they come because of the eye stress.
4. Lower back injuries: NO, I do not spend that much time in the computer any more and I ususally work out because I know that can happen.
5. Depression: May be, to spend so much time in a computer involves tremendus time in asolation and eventually a discordance with other humman beings, I mean, after a few month would be hard to relate to other people, that is why most of the "nerds" or computer geeks (if my spelling is right) are very frutrating getting dates and stuff.
6. Fatige: That is cause because you are not using your muscles and you do not work out, the start to deteriorate and your boddy is not use to use the average of enery that you would need during the day. I'm dealing with that right now, The solution: dring 2 bottles of gatorade during per day from 3 to 5 days, that is gonna help you stand up much more easier to do some other stuff.


Well, in my experience, all this symptoms can be applied to people that watch a lot of tv too. I'm telling you this because I have my brother that is 34 years old and suffer from all that, specially from another one that is "lack of money".

The problem is not sitting in the computer, that can actually be the result of another problem. I have seen a lot of people that are very bad realting to other people and had found a "good enviroment" working for many hours in their computers, of course, that is an enviroment that they can control. My brother suffers from that too, when he gets tired of watching tv he goes to the computer to watch porn, of course this is causing a depression cycle.

What I do is working in my computer in the morning or in the afternoon (never in booth at same time) and usually I have a date with a client in eather both of the times, that way I can spend practical time with my computer and still being able to socialize with other people, that is so important.

When I come at night I spend a few more hours in hotline and downloading stuff, but during the day I'm doing animations in after effects.

I just can't stand spending too much time in the computer, specially because I have done it before and I know the results can be worst than the ones in the article:
-Serious back injures.
-Sexual anxiety without a girlfriend.
-Depresion that end up with stress, paranoia, rache at other people, etc.
-No money
-Tendence to become a compulsive buyer (when you do not have too many things to do you started to buy things for your computer).

The worst of all is the isolation from other people and the lack of social contact, when you meet a girl and start to flyrt with her talking about macs you are just fighting for the best room in the Titanic, unless that other girl is just like you (that never happens BTW). So, do never loose social contact, in the long way that is gonna even help you with your work.

I'm 27 years old and I graduated from a Multimedia school 4 years ago and I have a audio ingeneer dregree previous of that, I specialize in midi and sound design since I was 14, I know what I'm talking about.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,009
Republic of Ukistan
Nevertheless

Notwithstanding that your points are good ones, it would still be interesting to know how much MORE stress is induced by flickering CRTs than by LCDs.
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Original poster
Nov 1, 2001
22,407
0
VA
Re: Re: Nevertheless

Originally posted by MacBandit


LCDs flicker also. They just emmit a lot less radiation.
LCDs emit light, CRTs emit electrons - a huge difference. I don't know if you can compare them in terms of radiation, since they truly are two different technologies.

CRTs allow you to change the refresh rate, its the speed of the electrons being manipulated by the magnets at the back of the tube.

LCDs don't need to have a refreshrate in this sense - the transistors on the screen are a certain color and brightness and they change when the video card tells them - my TiPB doesn't even give me an option to change it.

D
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: Re: Re: Nevertheless

Originally posted by dukestreet


LCDs emit light, CRTs emit electrons - a huge difference. I don't know if you can compare them in terms of radiation, since they truly are two different technologies.

CRTs allow you to change the refresh rate, its the speed of the electrons being manipulated by the magnets at the back of the tube.

LCDs don't need to have a refreshrate in this sense - the transistors on the screen are a certain color and brightness and they change when the video card tells them - my TiPB doesn't even give me an option to change it.

D
LCDs still have a refresh rate even though they work on a different principle.

On the difference in radiation. If CRTs just emitted electrons all you would see is a black screen. The reason that we don't is the electrons that are emitted out of the electron gun are then guided to the screen into a grill and then impact a phosphor layer. The phosphor layer glows when charged by the electrons and emits photons. That is what we see. The difference in actual eye strain is because the CRT for the most part is a lot brighter and therefore is like staring into a light bulb.
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,111
0
San Diego, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nevertheless

Originally posted by MacBandit
LCDs still have a refresh rate even though they work on a different principle.

On the difference in radiation. If CRTs just emitted electrons all you would see is a black screen. The reason that we don't is the electrons that are emitted out of the electron gun are then guided to the screen into a grill and then impact a phosphor layer. The phosphor layer glows when charged by the electrons and emits photons. That is what we see. The difference in actual eye strain is because the CRT for the most part is a lot brighter and therefore is like staring into a light bulb.
Way off, dude.

LCD's refresh rate is not the same thing as CRT's refresh rate. A CRT must constantly redraw the screen, since the phosphor layer only glows for a short time. The Hz rating determines how many times per second that the screen is redrawn/refreshed. A lower redraw rate will have a noticeable flicker, which causes eyestrain, headaches, etc. Even on high refresh rates, the flicker is there, just not perceptible to your eye, meaning the symptoms will still occur.

The LCD refresh rate is an indicator of how quickly the screen can update its image. The LCD's backlight is always on, and the individual pixels are either off or on, staying in their position until instructed otherwise.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nevertheless

Originally posted by Rower_CPU

The LCD refresh rate is an indicator of how quickly the screen can update its image. The LCD's backlight is always on, and the individual pixels are either off or on, staying in their position until instructed otherwise.
Okay the first part of your response made since. Though this last part doesn't. The stated refresh rates for LCDs does not necessarily depend on the speed of the pixels. They rate pixel speed speed in milliseconds not in Hz as in refresh rate. A lot of manufacturors do give the horizontal and vertical refresh scanning rate. The refresh rate is usually much slower then the overall pixel speed.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,009
Republic of Ukistan
Whatever...

From my own experience, I'd say that an LCD is definitely less of a pain to work with than a CRT. Maybe the pixels are just that much more refreshing...:p