We've always been at war with Eastasia...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    And you thought this could only happen in 1940s Germany or 1960s Russia.

    Obviously these people saw 1984 as an instruction book, not a warning.
     
  2. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #2
    Well sh**...

    That's perhaps the scariest thing I've ever read, next to this

     
  3. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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  4. Schtumple macrumors 601

    Schtumple

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    #4
    Christ, this really is 1984 huh? Only a matter of time before a 2nd civil war I guess :rolleyes:

    History is written by the winners. But I guess given enough time (and lunacy) anything can be "edited". Doubleplus good.

    Can't wait for ITN to get in on this. Come on, make Big Brother proud!
     
  5. Burnsey macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    It sounds like these guys would rather the US have been a racist power hungry theocracy.
     
  6. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #6
    Thomas mocks the Texas School Board for trying to regain balance in education and Texas educators are starting with the textbooks that are clearly biased. Not at all difficult to see McClatchy Newspaper's <Truth To Power> and liberal's rant here; easier still to shoot it down for the fiction it is.

    Balance is sorely needed. Texas school board member Don McLeroy is correct. Many have established the prevalence of educators to be skewed too far to the left. I have posted herein link after link showing secondary and collegiate educators far too invested in progressive causes; their politics strongly to the left. Balance is needed. Not at all surprising that Thomas misses this. Thus the need for textbook balance.

    Balance is sorely needed. Former Rep. Dick Armey is correct. In his 'History of Plymouth Plantation,' the governor of the colony, William Bradford, reported "...that the colonists went hungry for years, because they refused to work in the fields. They preferred instead to steal food. He says the colony was riddled with "corruption," and with "confusion and discontent." The crops were small because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce eatable."After the poor harvest of 1622, writes Bradford, "they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop." They began to question their form of economic organization. This had required that "all profits & benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing, or any other means" were to be placed in the common stock of the colony, and that, "all such persons as are of this colony, are to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common stock." A person was to put into the common stock all he could, and take out only what he needed. This "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" was an early form of socialism, and it is why the Pilgrims were starving. Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate." Socialism. Their ideology doomed them. So said the governor of the colony, William Bradford. Confirming Rep. Armey's statment. Thus the need for textbook balance.

    Balance is sorely needed. Former Rep. Dick Armey is correct. The Federalist Papers, a series of 85 articles or essays advocating the ratification of the United States Constitution, are a good resource for every American, not just the Tea Party movement. While the distraction here asked by the anonymous "member of the audience" (as reported) on Hamilton's "strong central government" stance a distraction that takes nothing away from the importance of The Federalist Papers as a gauge of Founding Father's sentiment behind the U.S. Constitution, it should be known that James Madison, John Jay, and others also contributed to the value and authorship of The Federalist Papers, a fact that Rep. Dick Armey knows well. Confirming Rep. Armey's statment. Thus the need for textbook balance.

    I'm not willing to proceed further into this biased, error-filled McClatchy Newspaper hit piece that Thomas cited; it ignores the balance the Texas School Board is trying to bring and ignores reality. Not surprising that Thomas blindly followed it. Also not surprising that Thomas blindly follows the teacher unions as represented by the NEA that desperately want to stop these Texas School Board educators from bringing balance to textbooks; they wouldn't want children receiving a balanced education would they?
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    ITN, we happen to have a thread going regarding the Federalist papers. How come you haven't joined in on that discussion?

    You might be surprised by some of the things James Madison wrote.

    Oh... well... maybe THAT'S why you've stayed away.
     
  8. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    You guys know that kindness I extended to ItN in the Easter morning thread?

    Y'all have my permission to slap me if I do it again.
     
  9. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #9
    Me, I'm more anti-Federalist, myself. Bill of Rights and all that. :)

    Balance? Sure. Many texts went too far left.

    That doesn't mean that an effort to sanctify McCarthy is justifed, however. He was correct as to the idea that there were anti-American Stalinists in high places and in Hollywood. But he went way overboard in his willingness to believe any allegation, no matter how foolish.

    Example: My mother was on the campus of the University of Texas in the 1930s. First to finish her degree in history, then to begin work on her doctorate in psychology. She often spoke of the political activities of those years. Sure, there were a fair number of people on campus who went to Communist Party meetings; some joined the party. Why? Simple. Many thought that the US system had failed, and there was a search for alternatives.

    Time went on, we recovered and most people fell away from the whole Communist shtick.

    So here comes McCarthy with his, "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?" And so somebody who as a kid of eighteen or so joined the Party and fell away, has to answer, "Yes, I was, but..." and gets hammered for life.

    The endeavor to find the facts as to who was aiding the USSR was worthwhile, but the Senate put the wrong clown in charge. The "Have you no shame?" speech is worth hunting up...
     
  10. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #10
    As usual in an attempt to create "balance" there's a conservative movement to misrepresent history and facts towards a framing that fits their political ideology. Oh joy.

    And a quick note about socialism in Jamestown. Although a loose definition of socialism would lead one to believe that Jamestown was operating under a kind of socialism—note this was far before Henri de Saint-Simon—there's a subtle difference between classic socialism and the mistakes at Jamestown. Note, the colony was owned by a multinational company that hired workers as indentured servants, who refused to work because the fruits of their labor went directly to the company. The new governor changed the system by giving three acres of land to each servant and the requirement that each man had only to work for the colony for one month per year, i.e. a tax.

    Essentially, the Jamestown colony moved from a nearly corporatist socialism to a social democracy.
    It's also worth noting that the growth of the Jamestown colony after 1619 was because of imported slave labor, putting Africans to work in the first tobacco fields.

    A good history class would review the episode at Jamestown not only as the "first European English" colony, but in how the colony used slave labor, overtook Native American land, and created the first elements of the United States, without bias towards one economic structure or particular group.

    Conservative "balance" is about changing the story of the Civil War from slavery to 'state's rights' fighting ideological frameworks rather than just stating facts and letting students be critical thinkers.
     
  11. Teh Don Ditty macrumors G4

    Teh Don Ditty

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    #11
    Dear Mexico,

    You have Texas back... for free.

    Sincerely,

    The United States of America
     
  12. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #12
    It is certainly easy for you to enter the keystrokes for "misrepresent" herein but proving it seems beyond your capability; I showed above the clear misunderstanding Thomas had and I would happy to set you on the veritas path as well. The balance being sought here by Texas School Board within the educational tomes endowed to our youth is key; know that.
     
  13. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #13
    I think I'm going to start boycotting Texas. No visiting it for vacation, no driving through it en route to somewhere else, and no connecting flights in it. I don't want any of my money, whether it's from sales tax or airport landing fees, going to that back-asswards extremist government. Tuck Fexas.
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    yg17, my sincerest thanks. Rest assured, we do indeed hope you keep your promise.

    I've always found it interesting that when the Rust Belt began and the economies of many northern states declined in dramatic fashion, those who could read and write came to Texas, thereby moving our political spectrum toward a more conservative bent.
     
  15. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #15
    Herein, I shall respond. You suffer an intellectual verberantia, so you throw out a latin verbum or two. Vere, you merely show your lack of vercundus and verecundia when you vereor the veritas. Vero, veritas is not versus your verto. You verto the verum which is not verus.

    (edit) Nice V paragraph Teh Don Ditty - Did you come up with that?
     
  16. Teh Don Ditty macrumors G4

    Teh Don Ditty

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    #16
    So...

    "Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V."
     
  17. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #17
    While I could never abandon my home here in the Old Dominion and owe Virginia my eternal allegiance I have always fancied the Texas star independence and admired the state its brave citizens. Had I been more a follower of the Turner thesis Texas would surely have been my shield.

    The definitive flogging you depict here in your post is wrongly chosen; even a rookie Cicero would have advanced better chosen prose yet I am not altogether unsympathetic to your student appeal herein. Color me only slightly impressed.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    Do you pick random words out of an SAT study guide and put them together to form your posts?
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #19
    A rookie Cicero, cute. But, alas, neither of us speaks Latin, and thanks for pointing out that we shouldn't try. My point being made quite well, if I say so myself.

    Student appeal? Speaking of education, are you willing to answer my questions yet?

    (edit) YG17, either he is trying to sound as though he were litteratus, or he is a sycophanta.

    Ok, I'm sorry, no more Latin.
     
  20. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #20
    David Bowie has just been on the radio and I was reminded that he famously uses the 'cut up' technique to write some of his songs, resulting in some bizarre and surreal lyrics.

    However, it's an interesting and innovative step for folk to write PRSI posts using this technique. As such, I think IntheNet should be applauded for his forward thinking. Bravo!
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Can I just slap you now? ;)

    I cannot believe this foolishness. Something has to be done to stop these people right now. They have gone way too far. They do not have the right to mess with and rewrite history to fit their agenda. This has gone far beyond the point of mere opinion and is becoming dangerous.
     
  22. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    Facts are facts. There is NOTHING wrong with people wanting to include a conservative opinion regarding those facts in textbooks. I think textbooks should give students both sides and allow the students an opportunity to think critically and to discuss the various opinions.

    What is NOT ok is picking and choosing the facts to try to give a false impression of what happened.

    Even textbooks with a 'liberal bias' have the facts, with liberal opinions. Why not just add a conservative opinion/counterpoint? It will only harm students to give them only some of the facts.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Did you read the article? This isn't opinion they are putting in textbooks, it's flat out lies.
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    Yes, and I know. But, if conservatives want to "fix" a perceived bias, what I suggested would be the way to go about doing it, not by picking and choosing facts or inserting lies.

    What the Texas Board of Education did was incredibly wrong in many ways. The sentiment, however, I understand. They want a conservative view to counter what they perceived was a liberal bias. Fine, include one, but DON'T change or edit the facts.
     

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