What do you guys/gals think of this editorial?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by darksithpro, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. darksithpro macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    #1
    I found it rather interesting, with a lot a hyperbole, but perhaps not? If Russia is backed into a corner, like Japan was, could it cause another war?

    http://halturnerradioshow.com/index...rld-war-3-the-missiles-will-fly-within-months


    With Russia Sanctions Bill, Congress has Just Begun World War 3 - The Missiles will fly within months

    America, prepare to be annihilated in blinding white flashes; the missiles will begin to fly within months. We will NOT make it to the 2018 elections. The reason: Congress just imposed more severe sanctions on Russia, than they did against Japan in the 1930's. History records that when sanctions strangled Japan, the Japanese attacked us. Well, within months, like Japan, Russia will begin to economically strangle. Only this time, Congress isn't doing this to some backwards, Third-world, cesspool, they're doing it to the second most-powerful nation on earth.

    As Russia's entire economy strangles, Russia will have only two choices: Give-in to all our demands, or uphold their own self-respect and fight it out. Russia will realize it is better to die on their feet, than to live on their knees and when that day comes - a whole slew of us in America and Europe will die in sudden, blinding, white flashes of nuclear Armageddon.

    Congress aren't fools - they're EVIL.

    You see, Congress knows they've spent us into Bankruptcy and - as a mathematical certainty - there's no way to service or get out of the debt they've gotten us into. So what they need is "Debt Forgiveness." But the ONLY way that a sovereign country the size of ours can get debt forgiveness is through WAR. When everything here in our country is literally smashed to hell' when millions are dead, only THEN will the bankers and investors realize they have no hope of ever collecting the money that's owed, and only then will they "forgive" the debt. That's Congress' plan . . . and the Russia Sanctions Bill is how they achieve it: By getting millions of us killed.

    We have a right to defend ourselves from Congress' criminal conspiracy to kill us. It's time to begin exercising that defense because the clock is now ticking and OUR time is now running out. Congress has sealed OUR fate' it's time we prepare to seal theirs!

    Congress thinks they will be able to ride out the war with their loved ones in the safety of hardened bunkers. We need to decide whether or not we will ALLOW them to reach that safety . . . or if we intercept them so they share the same fate they've arranged for all of us . . .


    First, some history

    Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.

    You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about.

    In the late nineteenth century, Japan’s economy began to grow and to industrialize rapidly. Because Japan has few natural resources, many of the burgeoning industries had to rely on imported raw materials, such as coal, iron ore or steel scrap, tin, copper, bauxite, rubber, and petroleum. Without access to such imports, many of which came from the United States or from European colonies in southeast Asia, Japan’s industrial economy would have ground to a halt. By engaging in international trade, however, the Japanese had built a moderately advanced industrial economy by 1941.

    At the same time, they also built a military-industrial complex to support an increasingly powerful army and navy. These armed forces allowed Japan to project its power into various places in the Pacific and east Asia, including Korea and northern China, much as the United States used its growing industrial might to equip armed forces that projected U.S. power into the Caribbean and Latin America, and even as far away as the Philippine Islands.

    When Franklin D. Roosevelt became president in 1933, the U.S. government fell under the control of a man who disliked the Japanese and harbored a romantic affection for the Chinese because, some writers have speculated, Roosevelt’s ancestors had made money in the China trade.[1] Roosevelt also disliked the Germans (and of course Adolf Hitler), and he tended to favor the British in his personal relations and in world affairs. He did not pay much attention to foreign policy, however, until his New Deal began to peter out in 1937. Afterward, he relied heavily on foreign policy to fulfill his political ambitions, including his desire for reelection to an unprecedented third term.

    When Germany began to rearm and to seek Lebensraum aggressively in the late 1930s, the Roosevelt administration cooperated closely with the British and the French in measures to oppose German expansion. After World War II commenced in 1939, this U.S. assistance grew ever greater and included such measures as the so-called destroyer deal and the deceptively named Lend-Lease program. In anticipation of U.S. entry into the war, British and U.S. military staffs secretly formulated plans for joint operations. U.S. forces sought to create a war-justifying incident by cooperating with the British navy in attacks on German U-boats in the north Atlantic, but Hitler refused to take the bait, thus denying Roosevelt the pretext he craved for making the United States a full-fledged, declared belligerent—an end that the great majority of Americans opposed.

    In June 1940, Henry L. Stimson, who had been secretary of war under Taft and secretary of state under Hoover, became secretary of war again. Stimson was a lion of the Anglophile, northeastern upper crust and no friend of the Japanese. In support of the so-called Open Door Policy for China, Stimson favored the use of economic sanctions to obstruct Japan’s advance in Asia. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau and Interior Secretary Harold Ickes vigorously endorsed this policy. Roosevelt hoped that such sanctions would goad the Japanese into making a rash mistake by launching a war against the United States, which would bring in Germany because Japan and Germany were allied.

    Accordingly, the Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus bringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.


    An Untenable Position

    Roosevelt and his subordinates knew they were putting Japan in an untenable position and that the Japanese government might well try to escape the stranglehold by going to war. Having broken the Japanese diplomatic code, the Americans knew, among many other things, what Foreign Minister Teijiro Toyoda had communicated to Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura on July 31: “Commercial and economic relations between Japan and third countries, led by England and the United States, are gradually becoming so horribly strained that we cannot endure it much longer. Consequently, our Empire, to save its very life, must take measures to secure the raw materials of the South Seas.”[3]

    Because American cryptographers had also broken the Japanese naval code, the leaders in Washington knew as well that Japan’s “measures” would include an attack on Pearl Harbor.[4] Yet they withheld this critical information from the commanders in Hawaii, who might have headed off the attack or prepared themselves to defend against it. That Roosevelt and his chieftains did not ring the tocsin makes perfect sense: after all, the impending attack constituted precisely what they had been seeking for a long time.As Stimson confided to his diary after a meeting of the war cabinet on November 25, “The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.”[5] After the attack, Stimson confessed that “my first feeling was of relief ... that a crisis had come in a way which would unite all our people.[6]

    Footnotes for all of the historical FACTS above, appear at the bottom of this Commentary/Opinion piece. Every item you have read so far is 100% verifiable and 100% factually true. These fact prove the US Government has a documented history of deliberately taking this nation to war and deliberately costing hundreds of thousands of American lives! Here is the official death toll from theNational World War 2 Museum:

    Now that we've established that the US Government uses Sanctions to deliberately start a war, and now that we've also established that the US Government is perfectly willing to kill-off hundreds-of-thousands of us regular citizens to achieve their goals, let's turn now to the present state of affairs and how the Sanctions Bill enacted by Congress this week, will repeat the same bloody results . . . only this time killing literally MILLIONS of us.



    THE SANCTIONS BILL
    To make certain readers understand this Commentary / opinion piece deals solely with FACTS, here is a link to the US Congress Web site with the official PDF of Bill H.R. 3364

    To show you how utterly devious the members of Congress truly are, they named the bill ‘‘Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act’.’ Sounds almost noble, doesn't it? It's not noble' it's evil.

    The Bill is specifically designed to start a war. Worse, the people who wrote and voted for this Bill are, in my opinion, so personally evil, they even inserted restraints in the Bill to prevent our President from negotiating an end to troubles caused by this Bill!

    Congress WANTS a war, and they don't want the President doing anything to get in the way of it. Worse, they''re so bent on war, they don't want us - the American people - interfering either. These sneaky, good-for-nothing political pieces of **** in Congress introduced the (final version) of the Bill on July 24 . . . . and voted on it one day later on July 25. They left no time at all for the American people to read the bill, analyze it, question it or oppose it. That's the level of absolute evil taking place in the Congress!

    The Senate was just as cunning and deceitful. The House Bill was received by the Senate on July 26 and by that night --- THE SAME DAY -- the Senate approved it.

    In fact, these degenerate political scumbags in Congress are so bent on getting what they NEED to achieve -- "Debt Forgiveness (through war)" they Approved this Bill by a VETO-PROOF majority of 419-3 in the House of Representatives, and a VETO-PROOF majority of 96-3.

    So even if President Trump vetoes the Bill, Congress has the votes to over-ride his veto and make this the law of the land anyway.



    What the Bill Does
    Section 201 of H.R. 3364 is titled "‘‘Countering Russian Influence in Europe and Eurasia Act of 2017.’’

    If you're asking yourself who the hell does Congress think it is to choose to "counter (anyone's) Influence" you're not alone.

    I know of no provision in the US Constitution which authorizes Congress to enact any law over foreign "influence" in Europe or EurAsia. These filthy political pigs in Congress are enacting legislation in the US, to interfere with country "A's" dealings with Continent "B" and Continent "C." None of it has anything at all to do with the United States!

    In the first few Sections, the Bill takes note of the EXECUTIVE ORDERS issued by former President Barack Obama, then converts them from Executive Orders to Law' and puts the new President, Donald Trump, under Congress by asserting the new President cannot change the old Presidents Executive Orders unless he asks for -- and gets -- approval from Congress!

    This is a violation of the Separation of Powers under our Constitution.

    In our system of government, the there are 3 branches of the federal government:

    1) Legislative Branch - composed of the House of Representatives and the Senate - (collectively called "Congress) which MAKES the law.

    2) Executive Branch - composed of the President, Vice President and all the "alphabet agencies" - Which ENFORCES the law,and'

    3) Judicial Branch - Composed of the Supreme Court and the lower courts - which INTERPRETS the law.

    The three branches are "separate but equal" insofar as one cannot exercise any powers of the other.

    When Congress MAKES the law, the Executive issues an Executive Order which instructs all the enforcement agencies as to HOW that law will be enforced. It is the Executive Branch which sets policy on how enforcement will take place. This Bill shatters that.

    By converting old Executive Orders from a former President into laws, and asserting that our new President must ask permission of Congress to change those old Executive Orders, Congress is taking unto itself the power to set policy on enforcement, and subjugating the new President to the legislative process in the event he wishes to change policy!

    Congress cannot tell a President which Executive Orders he may modify or cancel because, by their very nature, they Executive Orders are an instrument solely unto the Executive Branch! Yet that's one of the things this Bill does' it tries to force the President to be trapped into old Executive Orders, and demands he ask Congress for permission to change them.

    This not only deprives our new President of his power to set and modify policy, it prevents our new President from changing policy to meet what VOTERS sought to have done via the Election!

    Among other things, we voters wanted a change to the foreign policy of this nation and so instead of electing Hillary Clinton - who would have continued and worsened foreign policy through more war and conflict-- we elected Donald Trump to halt this nonsense. Well, Congress has decided that our wishes insofar as foreign policy, are not to be honored. They are using this Bill to FORCE our new President to continue the violent foreign policies of the past, and we Voters be damned!

    The next few paragraphs of the Bill, astonishingly, codify into LAW the legislative process that must be undertaken to change any of the Executive Orders they're forcing on everyone. This deprives any future Congress of the ability to choose how THEY want to legislate when it comes to changing the items covered by the Bill. Yes, you read that correctly, instead of merely adopting new rules for itself, any future Congress will have to legislate changes to THIS LAW, in order to effect changes within their own Houses of Congress concerning policies of this Bill.

    So this Congress is depriving future Congresses of the ability to simply modify their own legislative rules when it comes to the disastrous policies contained later in this Bill.

    I guess if this Congress wants to bind itself by law, then perhaps they can do that. But the notion they can bind FUTURE Congresses to adhere to the disastrous aspects of what THIS Congress wants, seems to be a bit over the top. And how they actually bind future Congresses is simple: Any future Congress that wishes to change the legislative procedures within each of their own houses concerning the policies in this Bill, would see those legislative rule changes be subject to a VETO by a future President' that future Congress would have its hands tied, making their own legislative rules subject to Presidential veto.

    Putting our present President under legislative rules for changing Executive Orders is bad, but putting future Congress own legislative rule-making under the Veto power of a future President is worse!

    Here's the worst part of all: Who among us asked Congress to do any of this? Which AMERICAN CITIZENS asked Congress to do any of this? I dare speculate: NONE.

    So who is Congress actually serving through this Bill? It isn't Americans. It's certainly not serving AMERICAN interests by setting up a massive new war. So WHO is Congress serving? Not us. They're doing someone ELSE's bidding. And in that regard, every single member of Congress who voted for this Bill is a dire, despicable TRAITOR to the American people.



    Now, the "meat" of the Bill which leads to war
    In the next several areas of the Bill, Congress places sanctions on:

    "state-owned entity operating in the railway or metals and mining sector of the economy of the Russian Federation."

    "prohibits the conduct by United States persons or persons within the United States of all transactions in, provision of financing for, and other dealings in new debt of longer than 14 days maturity or new equity of persons determined to be subject to the directive, their property, or their interests in property. (This means no US bank or financial entity can finance anything involving Russia longer than 14 days. This cuts off all the privately-owned investment money and all Banking money in the US from Russia' they won't be able to finance anything. ANYTHING AT ALL!)

    prohibits the provision, exportation, or reexportation, directly or indirectly, by United States persons or persons within the United States, of goods, services (except for financial services), or technology in support of exploration or production for new deepwater, Arctic offshore, or shale projects— (1) that have the potential to produce oil' (Congress is cutting off Russia's ability to export oil)

    block and prohibit all transactions in all property and interests in property of a person determined by the President to be subject to subsection (a)(1) if such property and interests in property are in the United States, come within the United States, or are or come within the possession or control of a United States person. (through this section, Congress cuts off all economic activity between Russia and the United States. ALL OF IT - even Russia's desire to buy food.)

    Here, specifically is how the war will start:

    In Section 10 on Page 66 of this Bill, Congress declares that there must be "MANDATORY IMPOSITION OF SANCTIONS WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN TRANSACTIONS WITH PERSONS THAT EVADE SANCTIONS IMPOSED WITH RESPECT TO THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION."

    In this section, Congress says that anyone else (any country or business or individual person), anywhere in the world, who "evades" what the US Congress wants, (by continuing to do business with Russia) shall themselves be SANCTIONED!

    By including this Section in this Bill, the US Congress is telling everyone else on the planet that THEY cannot do business with Russia and if they DO, they cannot do business with the United States!

    This will start World War 3.

    It's bad enough that Congress is seeking to cut off the rail, mining, transportation and oil industries of Russia from the US. But for Congress to also say that no one else on this planet can do business with Russia or they will be cut off from business with the United States, will literally strangle Russia's economy to death.

    It will also strangle to death the economies of other countries, who need to sell to Russia. In particular, it will strangle European, Chinese and Asian companies and those countries to death because they are now forced to choose between doing business with the USA, or doing business with Russia. Under this Bill, they cannot do both.

    So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. This Bill is literally an economic blockade of Russia by the US Congress. And it actually goes so far as to demand that every other country in the world cooperate with our blockade, or face losing all US business dealings. This is WORSE than what the United States did to Japan before World War 2. And, as you know, what Congress did back then CAUSED Japan to attack us.

    What do you think is going to happen now that Congress has done THIS? Yep. WAR.

    As Russia begins to strangle economically, they will look themselves in the mirror and say "It's better for us to die on our feet than to live on our knees." And on that day, the missiles will fly' Tanks and troops will invade Europe, and world War 3 will begin. It's only a matter of months away, at best.

    The longer Russia waits to attack, the weaker Russia will become. There's no avoiding it. There's no way around it.

    THAT is what the filthy pigs in Congress did this week. And they have now set the stage to get YOU and me, and our families, killed.

    It is time to start actively monitoring the exact whereabouts of all members of Congress. At some point, they will begin to evacuate to Mt. Weather, and to the underground city beneath Denver Airport, so they can hope to ride out the war in the safety of hardened bunkers, filled with food, water and comforts, while the rest of us perish in a war the likes of which the world has never seen.

    Maybe we should be able to prevent them from evacuating? Maybe we should make certain that they and their good for nothing families, are stuck right here with the rest of us.

    Knowing where Congress members are, is essential to making sure they share our fate.

    Watch them

    Watch them all.

    Closely.

    When you see them packing up to flee, get the word out, and do what you feel you need to do, with these sick, evil, ****s who have committed these acts and deliberately set us all up for World War 3.



    Perhaps the President can Ward-off this disaster?
    If I were President Trump, I would immediately have all my contacts at the Republican National Committee and all its related campaign apparatus, CUT OFF ALL ACCESS to money, political help and political information to every member of the House and Senate, until such time as each GOP member of Congress agrees to sustain a Presidential VETO of this Bill. SLAM THE DOOR SHUT ON ALL ACCESS TO GOP RESOURCES BY GOP MEMBERS.

    When Republican Congressmen and Senators see they are completely cut off from all access to the Republican political apparatus, it will get their attention fast.

    The President should make known that unless GOP members sustain his VETO, he will personally travel to each of their Districts and publicly call them Deceptive, dishonest and warlike, to intentionally WRECK their political careers -- even if it means allowing Democrats to win control of Congress, because keeping us out of World War 3 is THAT important. In fact, he might even want to tell DEMOCRATS that he is willing to forego all animosity of the past and come into their Districts to SUPPORT DEMOCRATS because keeping us out of a nuclear war is THAT important.

    If I were President Trump, I would immediately RESCIND all of the Obama Executive Orders referenced in this Bill. If the Orders are RESCINDED, that guts the ability of this Bill to make use of them . . . it may even force Congress to re-write the Bill because, after all, how can a law be passed which references Executive Orders which no longer exist?

    That would provide a legal basis for the Administration to go to court and argue that Congress is violating the Separation of Powers, preventing the Executive form altering its own Executive Orders and thereby usurping Executive powers. Court action might delay implementation of the Bill if it becomes law.

    If it does cause Congress to re-write the Bill, then that could also mean a new vote -- and the President, having shut off all access to GOP political apparatus, would then be able to work toward swaying how Congress critters vote on the NEW Bill.

    President Trump should then wait nine of the ten days he has, and VETO this Bill.

    The VETO should include Constitutional arguments about violation of the separation of powers, the tying of future Congress' hands by this existing Congress, and how NO AMERICAN CITIZEN ever asked Congress to do any of this, never mind do it to get us into a war.

    The VETO message should also include a lengthy segment about how this action by Congress will lead directly to all-out war.

    The President must immediately take to Twitter and to the legacy mass-media and begin using his bully pulpit to tell the American people that Congress is taking them to war by deception. Get the public riled-up about this. The President has to take off the gloves and Incite action. Our very EXISTENCE IS AT STAKE!

    Call on LIBERALS to get their protest apparatus into gear and surround the homes of Congressmen and Senators with loud, boisterous protests to put a stop to this "war by deception."

    Call-up the Bikers-for-Trump and tell them to do drive-arounds of the Congressmen and Senators homes on their loud Harley Davidson motorcycles all night to keep these sniveling Congressional scum awake at night!

    The President needs to do these things IMMEDIATELY because the clock is ticking on him signing or Vetoing the Bill and he only has a few DAYS left to get a whole slew of action done.

    Readers are encouraged to contact the mass-media and ask them WHY they are not telling the American people that what Congress has just done to Russia is worse than what they did to Japan in the 1930's and 40's which lead to all-out war. And the result this time, will be far worse than World War two.
    Hal Turner Commentary
     
  2. sorcery macrumors regular

    sorcery

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Location:
    Ring of Fire
    #2
    The sanctions are backing Germany and EU into a corner, not Russia.
    Russians play chess, not baseball. They will wait, smirking, to see what damage is done to EU - USA relations.
     
  3. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #3
    I think it's rather ridiculous and reads like a supermarket checkout tabloid. Russia isn't going to go into nuke war with us over it as their citizens would be killed too and Putin and the Oligarchs cushy lifestyle would come to an end, even if they themselves did not.

    Russia has plenty of money, it's just in the Oligarchs and Putin hands. If Russia wants the sanctions lifted, there is a much easier and better solution than having their own citizens nuked. Simply stop meddling in other elections and stop trying to conquer more territory. We can work out a shared arrangement in Ukraine for the warm weather port, but hostilities must end there too. Once those things are done, the sanctions can be lifted. Simple and much better than nukes.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Russia's problem is that a huge percentage of its economy is based on oil and gas and it doesn't have anything else really to offer.
     
  5. darksithpro thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    #5

    What do you mean work out an arrangement? There's no way in hell Russia will give up it's only warm water Navy base in the Black Sea. There is no negotiation, period. Crimea is done, over with, no negotiation, ever.
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #6
    That could be the arrangement. We let them keep Crimea.
     
  7. darksithpro thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    #7
    With the Navy base?
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    Of course. It's in Crimea.
     
  9. HEK, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    HEK macrumors 68040

    HEK

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    #9
    Russian BS plant. Total nonsense. Sanctions will not cause nuke war. Embargo against coal, oil and steel against Japan totally different scenario. Japan was actively at war for years. Without those raw materials they could not continue to prosecute the war. Japan had to get those raw materials from other sources, Southeast Asia and Indonesia. They would need to invade for that and US Pacific fleet would block that. Therefore they had to attack and cripple the US Pacific fleet.

    They just made two mistakes, one not finding and sinking our four carriers. And two, the biggest one, not invading the Hawaiian Island. They could have achieved their goals and extended the war for several more years.

    Russians are in no such situation. Sure it will cost them some money. But they won't loose any territory. The natural resources they won't be able to sell now, they will sell later, at even higher price. The sanctions will hurt some rich Russian oligarchs and Putin's kickbacks but not cripple them.

    The article is a lame ass attempt by the Russian dis-information campaign trying to fight back. They got Trump into their pocket, but too much leaked out and congress put their collective foot down. The Russian FSB has been actively arresting key players in Russia that know about the hacking so that as little information would leak. But those efforts have also been exposed.

    Putin was successful in the greatest espionage collusion ever attempted. He got an amoral idiot elected president of the United States. This will be temporary, as the Donald will resign as Mueller investigation reveals the truth and starts charging administration, family and campaign memebers. The biggest goal failed as Trump and his minions were too stupid to keep this under wraps. Once again the intelligence of our founding fathers, in dividing the government into three co-equal branches is born out. The sanctions got worse because paybacks are a bitch, right Putin. As the Mooch would say, ah, congress stabbed em in the gut, ah, face it, that fxxxxx Putin can go sxxx some Congress cxxx.

    This message sanctioned by the Trump decorum communications director.
     
  10. Alexander.Of.Oz macrumors 68030

    Alexander.Of.Oz

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2013
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #10
    I always thought China was the second most powerful country on earth? o_O

    According to this image, Russia is fifth most powerful.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. decafjava macrumors 68030

    decafjava

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    Geneva
    #11
    Wow, the article starts as Axis apologia then segues into hysteria. Not that I wouldn't like to see some kind of accommodation between Russia and the US/Europe.
     
  12. jpietrzak8, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    #12
    Sigh. I can't really comment on the modern-day sanctions thing (other than, what? You think the entire Russian economy is based on American imports? Are you nuts?), but the analysis of Japanese actions pre-WWII is utterly idiotic.

    The guy starts out by blandly stating: "In the late nineteenth century, Japan’s economy began to grow and to industrialize rapidly. Because Japan has few natural resources, many of the burgeoning industries had to rely on imported raw materials, such as coal, iron ore or steel scrap, tin, copper, bauxite, rubber, and petroleum. Without access to such imports, many of which came from the United States or from European colonies in southeast Asia, Japan’s industrial economy would have ground to a halt."

    Here's a fun fact for you: in the nearly 2000 year history of Japan before the late nineteenth century, Japan survived just fine on its own natural resources. What happened is that the West gave their leaders an education in how to dominate other lands and create colonies for yourself using technological might. (And the US had a significant role here -- it was Commodore Perry who forced open Japanese ports to foreign shipping in 1853. And they still today talk about when Roosevelt's "Great White Fleet" visited Japan. Kids learn about these things in history class.) And so, Japan started a rapid industrial and military investment effort.

    And it paid off almost immediately. In the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05, Japan annihilated the Russian deep-water fleet and made major gains against their land forces in Manchuria and Korea. As such, Russia gave up its efforts to create colonies in these areas, and Japan moved in soon afterwards. And so, Japan became another colonial empire, just like so many of the European nations.

    The guy has it backwards! Japan didn't build a military / industrial complex in order to support the growing need of its country for raw materials. Instead, Japan became an empire with far-flung colonies, and needed raw materials to support it's growing military / industrial complex.

    The order is important -- Japan decided to become an international military power long before it was an empire that spanned the western Pacific Ocean. Also importantly, Japan was not at all dependent on raw materials from America at the beginning of WWII: they were, after all, an empire covering many islands, as well as Korea, Manchuria, and they had already invaded China. They had plenty of new resources coming in from all their new acquisitions.

    The US may have entered WWII in 1941, but Japan had already been actively at war for a decade prior to that. Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor because they were worried about economic sanctions. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because they were worried about the battleships and aircraft carriers stationed there. They could see that America was a threat to their continued colonial expansion, and wanted to nip in the bud the rapidly growing military threat to their flank.


    Sorry for the long screed. TL;DR: the situation with Russia today is nowhere near the same as the situation was with Japan then.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #13
    Half baked argument. He is arguing that the U.S. should not use sanctions against Russia, just leave them be, that is his solution, because economic sanctions led Japan to attacking Pearl Harbor. This is not a secret (Japan) but maybe it is to his readership.

    Economic pressure is an effective tool to curb a country's nationalistic appetites and is much preferable to war up front or doing nothing. What other tools do countries have to modify adversaries behavior? I don't deny Japan decided to attack us, but keep in mind this was in addition to all of Asia that they were already busy trying to absorb, so they were an actively militaristic aggressive nation, that was before the days of nukes, and that is a bad comparison to be used with today's Russia. You can compare Russia with N. Korea. Do they both have death wishes?

    So here are the options as I see them:
    • Do nothing
    • Diplomacy- please don't do that plus possible economic incentives not to do that.
    • Economic sanctions.
    • Retaliatory strikes (after they hit us).
    • First strike war.
    Other options? What do you (anyone) think should be done?
    --- Post Merged, Jul 30, 2017 ---
    I would too, but I assume you agree that does not mean rewarding Russia for bad behavior or being their patsies.
     
  14. decafjava macrumors 68030

    decafjava

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    Geneva
    #14
    Good post, no I don't think bad behavjour should be rewarded but a recognition of mutual interests and how one's own bad behaviour has made it easier for others to follow suit. I can be emphatic that the first and last options are the worst ones.
     

Share This Page