What do you think about this Top Secret NSA slide?


MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
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CT
PBS Frontline is running a great 2 part series on this. I think it is so far the most in depth look.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
If you are serious, how does the system distinguish between citizens and non-citizens?
Yes, actually I am serious.

To answer your question, I have no idea. But I have been told by said family member a million times that they very consciously avoid collecting ANY data on US citizens, and if they did collect any and discover it, it's purged, like immediately.

They have this drilled into their heads CONSTANTLY during training.

I'm hunting through my email archives to find some discussions I've had with him about the NSA and privacy issues, having trouble finding them, but I'll post them when I do.

He's a GS-15 (or maybe SES now?) high up in the Cyber Defense area.
 

kilcher

macrumors 65816
Jul 3, 2011
1,262
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I think the same thing I thought when those slides hit the news a year ago.
 

Hieveryone

macrumors 601
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
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Yes, actually I am serious.

To answer your question, I have no idea. But I have been told by said family member a million times that they very consciously avoid collecting ANY data on US citizens, and if they did collect any and discover it, it's purged, like immediately.

They have this drilled into their heads CONSTANTLY during training.

I'm hunting through my email archives to find some discussions I've had with him about the NSA and privacy issues, having trouble finding them, but I'll post them when I do.

He's a GS-15 (or maybe SES now?) high up in the Cyber Defense area.
How do we know he is telling the truth? The NSA has lied before and they are probably lying again to save face. I don't trust the NSA nor should you.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
How do we know he is telling the truth? The NSA has lied before and they are probably lying again to save face. I don't trust the NSA nor should you.
He's a very close family member. We've had long conversations about it. Several of my friends from grad school also work there, and I hear the same from them (although we hardly ever talk about it).

Hell, I almost went to work there as well about 10 years ago (right out of grad school), but chose a different agency (NSF OIG). I had a pot arrest (but no conviction) on my record and was a bit concerned about getting the super-duper-duper security clearance, and NSF OIG only required a Secret clearance.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
He's a very close family member. We've had long conversations about it. Several of my friends from grad school also work there, and I hear the same from them (although we hardly ever talk about it).

Hell, I almost went to work there as well about 10 years ago (right out of grad school), but chose a different agency (NSF OIG). I had a pot arrest (but no conviction) on my record and was a bit concerned about getting the super-duper-duper security clearance, and NSF OIG only required a Secret clearance.
The NSA company line is to tell you they are not spying on you. That sir is a lie. You need to find better friends and family.
 

macmesser

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2012
805
63
Long Island, NY USA
He's a very close family member. We've had long conversations about it. Several of my friends from grad school also work there, and I hear the same from them (although we hardly ever talk about it).

Hell, I almost went to work there as well about 10 years ago (right out of grad school), but chose a different agency (NSF OIG). I had a pot arrest (but no conviction) on my record and was a bit concerned about getting the super-duper-duper security clearance, and NSF OIG only required a Secret clearance.
What does the NSF-OIG do?
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors P6
Aug 17, 2007
17,540
8,165
Colorado
Yes, actually I am serious.

To answer your question, I have no idea. But I have been told by said family member a million times that they very consciously avoid collecting ANY data on US citizens, and if they did collect any and discover it, it's purged, like immediately.

They have this drilled into their heads CONSTANTLY during training.

I'm hunting through my email archives to find some discussions I've had with him about the NSA and privacy issues, having trouble finding them, but I'll post them when I do.

He's a GS-15 (or maybe SES now?) high up in the Cyber Defense area.
That is a complete load of crap, and I don't believe for a second that the NSA only spies on non-citizens.

How do we know he is telling the truth? The NSA has lied before and they are probably lying again to save face. I don't trust the NSA nor should you.
Agreed.

The NSA company line is to tell you they are not spying on you. That sir is a lie. You need to find better friends and family.
Agreed.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
What does the NSF-OIG do?
Standard Executive Agency OIG (Office of Inspector General).

Uncover/stop waste, fraud, abuse within the agency. Although since the primary mission of NSF is to give away $ to universities to do scientific research, most of the time we were auditing/prosecuting universities/people who worked there, not people who actually worked at NSF (although we did that, too).

http://www.nsf.gov/oig/mandv.jsp

When I worked there, we got back more than 4x our annual budget in recovered funds each year.

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That is a complete load of crap, and I don't believe for a second that the NSA only spies on non-citizens.
Why? That's what the FBI is for.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
Standard Executive Agency OIG (Office of Inspector General).

Uncover/stop waste, fraud, abuse within the agency. Although since the primary mission of NSF is to give away $ to universities to do scientific research, most of the time we were auditing/prosecuting universities/people who worked there, not people who actually worked at NSF (although we did that, too).

http://www.nsf.gov/oig/mandv.jsp

When I worked there, we got back more than 4x our annual budget in recovered funds each year.

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Why? That's what the FBI is for.
Watch the link I posted for your answers.
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors P6
Aug 17, 2007
17,540
8,165
Colorado
As you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about, I'll let that slide.
Really, we are supposed to take the word of an anonymous poster who has a "close family member" that works for the agency in question?

If SouthernDad had a source like this for something would you believe him? :rolleyes:
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
Really, we are supposed to take the word of an anonymous poster who has a "close family member" that works for the agency in question?

If SouthernDad had a source like this for something would you believe him? :rolleyes:
EDIT: Unsure if this counts as proof. I have his card in my wallet, I forgot about that!



But he and I both went through this program and the vast majority of the graduates go to either NSA or FBI (FBI for forensics, NSA for cyber defense/crypto):

https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

I'll take a picture of my CyberCorp tshirt in my closet when I get home. :)

That's how I got my 100% free-of-charge MS in CompSci (and a living stipend, too, so I didn't have to work, could go to school full time and knock out my MS in 3 semesters).

He also did a "rotation" at the White House OSTP (Office of Science and Technology Policy) during the later Bush years, which is how I got my sweet sweet West Wing tour.
 
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MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
EDIT: Unsure if this counts as proof. I have his card in my wallet, I forgot about that!

Image

But he and I both went through this program and the vast majority of the graduates go to either NSA or FBI (FBI for forensics, NSA for cyber defense/crypto):

https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

I'll take a picture of my CyberCorp tshirt in my closet when I get home. :)

That's how I got my 100% free-of-charge MS in CompSci (and a living stipend, too, so I didn't have to work, could go to school full time and knock out my MS in 3 semesters).

He also did a "rotation" at the White House OSTP (Office of Science and Technology Policy) during the later Bush years, which is how I got my sweet sweet West Wing tour.
Proof that you know a person that works there and proof that they are telling you the truth are different. Why would a person who's job is to spy tell you so? That would go against the job description. So in reality you don't know anything about what the NSA does. And for you to claim to know what a agency that has been caught lying to tell you the truth is laughable.