What does the middle-class need?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. aaronvan, Jan 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015

    aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    The middle-class depends on:

    • Cheap energy
    • Heavy industry
    • Land-use rules that favor single-family housing
    • Reduced costs of homeownership
    • Border control to protect lower-skilled workers from wage competition
    • Affordable education
    • Affordable heath care

    It may be very populist, but the party/candidate that advances these policies will win the next presidential election.
     
  2. TimelessOne macrumors regular

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    #2
    You left out education. More so affordable education, and affordable heath care.
     
  3. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #3
    Major fail thinking that people will actually vote based on what actually benefits them.


    (evenmore: politicians fighting an election have no connection to the same politicians holding an office)
     
  4. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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  5. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #5
    Your list is made entirely of things on the "outflow" side of economic activity. You left off everything on the "income" side.

    A middle class also needs "employment" or more precisely "a broad and stable source for income commensurate with expenditures".

    Without income or disposable wealth, "affordable" means nothing.
     
  6. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #6
    Cheap energy & reduced homeownership costs = more disposable income and higher equity for homeowners.

    Protection from wage competition = higher wages.

    And so on. Basic Econ 101.
     
  7. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #7
    The border control issue would have been easier to solve on the employment end. It mainly requires a simple method of compliance (something like everify) and very heavy fines for anyone who ignores it. Protectionism only works to some degree though. When it comes to anything marketed beyond its own local economy, they may be competing against similar products. I think there also needs to be a culture shift. I don't know what to do about home ownership. The SFH model seems impractical to me in the current century.
     
  8. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #8
    What does the middle class need? Pest control.
    (I'm of course referring to the real middle class i.e. those that control the levers of power on behalf of the aristocracy and not as many Americans seem to think the middle class as another word for the working class).
     
  9. boast macrumors 65816

    boast

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    #9
    The middle class is made up of low skilled workers?

    If so, then what the middle class needs is a new class identification.
     
  10. noodlemanc macrumors regular

    noodlemanc

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    #10
    With every man and his dog going to university these days why do people need protection from foreign workers?
     
  11. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    #11
    When you included wage protection for lower skilled workers, I was totally confused about what you defined as Middle Class and had to go to the Internet for a Definition of "American Middle Class"

    I found it was no different from what I expected as shown in the below definition. I have to assume therefore that your view of middle class is not the norm.

    "Members of the middle class belong to diverse groups which overlap with each other. Overall, middle-class persons, especially upper-middle-class individuals, are characterized by conceptualizing, creating and consulting. Thus, college education is one of the main indicators of middle-class status. Largely attributed to the nature of middle-class occupations, middle class values tend to emphasize independence, adherence to intrinsic standards, valuing innovation and respecting non-conformity.[2][5] Politically more active than other demographics, college educated middle class professionals are split between the two major parties.[6]

    Income varies considerably from near the national median to well in excess of $100,000.[2][4] Household income figures, however, do not always reflect class status and standard of living, as they are largely influenced by the number of income earners and fail to recognize household size. It is therefore possible for a large, dual-earner, lower middle class household to out-earn a small, one-earner, upper middle class household.[5] The middle classes are very influential, as they encompass the majority of voters, writers, teachers, journalists, and editors.[7] Most societal trends in the US originate within the middle classes.[8]"
     
  12. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

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  13. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    That is a very elitist definition of "middle-class;" it seems to equate lower-skilled with lower-class. It sounds like it was written by a college humanities professor who never met a steel or auto worker or anyone who made a living without a college degree. Also, it completely ignores upward mobility.
     
  14. luvmymbpr macrumors regular

    luvmymbpr

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    #14
    Affordable would require the government attacking the insane costs of health care. They won't touch that at all. Private insurance companies lobby them heavily, and they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

    Free healthcare? No way. Someone has to pay for the healthcare. It's bad enough that our rates have gone up to pay for all the free and subsidized health care that is being handed out under the unaffordable care act.
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    You misunderstand the difference between the middle classes (in Marxian terms the bourgeoisie ) and the working classes ,the working class survive by selling their labour,the middle classes by selling their labour and by collecting capital,mainly by property ownership.It is something that has been blurred by the Thatcher/Reagan idea of the home owning class,e.g. in the nineties home owners (lets not forget they didn't own their homes the banks did) made more money in the rising value of their "homes" than their wages did.
    I think an understanding of what bourgeoise,petite bourgeoise and working class mean before the conversation can go forward.
     
  16. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #16
    Many of you youngsters seem to have been born about the time the lower middle class died.

    Once upon a time, the lower middle class was made up of near-median wage/salary workers who did not graduate from a university. Many skilled trades, as well as mid-level supervisors/managers in retail and manufacturing, independent shop owners, etc.

    Agreed. Unfortunately, it has been increasingly true since 1981. The combination of Reagan's policies and information technology (which has made obsolete many logistics occupations in manufacturing and distribution) has put a lid on lower-middle-class income.

    Your Marxist categories did not fit the U.S. income/occupation profile in post-WWII GI-Bill America. Sadly, they fit much better today, 35 years after the Reagan "revolution". I am finding Jane Austen's novels much more contemporary now than they were when I was in high school.
     
  17. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #17
    a larger share of the profits they help create
     
  18. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #18
  19. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    #19
    I understand the difference between middle class and working class very well. It seems this thread is attempting to include working class in middle class.
     
  20. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #20
    Well quite (I admit I was a bit pissed when I posted that) and yes you are right it's been a American thing that you meld the working and middle classes together to somehow mean they have the same wishes,nothing could be further from the truth,those that produce the wealth i.e. the working classes have nothing in common with those that cream off that wealth.
    It's time the working class figure out and stand by their fellows in Germany,Russia and China etc are their comrades and not the middle class who exist in all their countries.
    Internationalism in a word.
     
  21. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #21
    It's all about increasing disposable income in the middle class. Doing so is the key to economic viability and growth long term.

    ...add job security too...

    You free up money, and homes get bigger, more goods get consumed, more cars get sold, better insurance is purchased, more businesses benefit and expand due to increased profits.

    What the middle class does not need is money hoarded in the 1%, which will never be as beneficial as someone in the class spending it.
     
  22. jnpy!$4g3cwk, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015

    jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #22
    I'm wondering if you and Peterkro understand that American usage is different from British usage in this case?

    Are you denying that the United States ever had a lower middle class?

    How would I know if you are a member of the "working class" or the "middle class"?

    I'm afraid that automation has turned your quaint Marxist labor categories on their heads. If robots do all the physical work, and, all the routine bookkeeping, logistics, ordering, etc., then only the middle class will be working, and, the poor will be unemployed and living on corn chips and HFCS soda. The Marxist idea of capitalist parasites living on the surplus value from the employment of labor is meaningless if the labor is done by robots and computers and the physical labor of the poor is of no value.
     
  23. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #23
    Jobs that pay a livable wage - I'm not talking one so that they can go buy the latest Mega SUV and a new iPhone every year...
     
  24. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #24
    No such thing as FREE health care.
     
  25. Anitramane macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Education and health care payed by taxes available for all countrys citizents? That'd be cool.
     

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