What will be Androids (Manufacturers) response and reaction to Apples Face ID?

[Puddled]

?

I would think that getting touch ID under the screen will still be persued in the short term, whilst manufacturers look at developing Face unlock for themselves. This will give a period of grace whilst the viability of the face id technolgy is live tested by apple.

If the $350 premium of the X is largely due to the costs of the Face ID hardware, i can't see it being taken up by many. Android is too price sensitive below flagship level.

If the $350 premium really is down ti the Face ID hardware, Apple will want to be getting those costs down rapid. Its not viable in the long term. I couldn't see the iphone 9 selling in numbers if its the same price as the x is now. The X is a one off. I think that samsung stepping away from the high prices of late would be great for them. Keep the S9 as a refinement of the S8. Keep the HP. Keep the FP, but move it where it should be or move it under the screen. Drop the price by $50. Guarantee 3 major os updates and market the galaxy range as long life phones.

Android has had face id for ages. It was crap, and the iris scan of samsung is a serious improvement but its not a full face scan. Its going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Not everything apple does is a home run (3D touch).

Nobody cares about specs much anymore so hardware development that forcuses on function rather than horsepower is great.

 

[The Game 161]

From the sounds they are worried about it that some may just scrap under the screen Touch ID in favour of working on the same tech

 

[jamezr]

Samsung and LG both already have facial software solutions. If anything Apple is kinda late to bring this feature to the iphone.

 

[I7guy]

Apple was also late to the game with their fingerprint authentication system...

 

[widgeteer]

Samsung and LG both already have facial software solutions. If anything Apple is kinda late to bring this feature to the iphone.

Apple's is not the same as theirs though. Apple is using 3D mapping technology for what is supposed to be a legitimately secure means to use it with payment services. It's not that Apple is the first to use something like facial scanning but they're the first to roll it out as the most secure means to protect your phone.

To answer the OP, if it works great and no one misses Touch ID on the iPhone, then Android OEM's will race to adopt. it's exactly what happened with fingerprint scanners. Apple wasn't the first with that either but they made it so it was good enough for mass adoption, and secure enough.

 

[jamezr]

Apple's is not the same as theirs though. Apple is using 3D mapping technology for what is supposed to be a legitimately secure means to use it with payment services. It's not that Apple is the first to use something like facial scanning but they're the first to roll it out as the most secure means to protect your phone.

To answer the OP, if it works great and no one misses Touch ID on the iPhone, then Android OEM's will race to adopt. it's exactly what happened with fingerprint scanners. Apple wasn't the first with that either but they made it so it was good enough for mass adoption, and secure enough.

I agree to a point.....they are never first....then their solution is not always better. Like wireless charging....larger display phones or bezeless design. Removing the headphones for a better solution?

But I do agree that Android OEMs follow a lot of what Apple does and vice versa as well.

 

[tbayrgs]

Apple's is not the same as theirs though. Apple is using 3D mapping technology for what is supposed to be a legitimately secure means to use it with payment services. It's not that Apple is the first to use something like facial scanning but they're the first to roll it out as the most secure means to protect your phone.

To answer the OP, if it works great and no one misses Touch ID on the iPhone, then Android OEM's will race to adopt. it's exactly what happened with fingerprint scanners. Apple wasn't the first with that either but they made it so it was good enough for mass adoption, and secure enough.

Exactly what I was saying weeks ago. Apple goes all in and generally doesn't like to look back. Unless FaceID fails miserably, TouchID is unlikely to return.

As far as what other OEMs do, I think we'll see most try to implement similar solutions but there will also be some that stick with FP sensors as a differentiating feature, much like how some aren't so quick to dump the headphone jack.

 

[widgeteer]

I agree to a point.....they are never first....then their solution is not always better. Like wireless charging....larger display phones or bezeless design. Removing the headphones for a better solution?

But I do agree that Android OEMs follow a lot of what Apple does and vice versa as well.

I was quite happy they didn't try to reinvent wireless charging. It would have meant something proprietary requiring new accessories. I just wish they would have enabled fast wireless charging like Sammy. And they need to stop being so cheap on the included charger for the iPhone. I basically throw mine out because it's useless.

 

[jamezr]

I was quite happy they didn't try to reinvent wireless charging. It would have meant something proprietary requiring new accessories. I just wish they would have enabled fast wireless charging like Sammy. And they need to stop being so cheap on the included charger for the iPhone. I basically throw mine out because it's useless.

yeah...i use and iPad charger for my iPhones. It does the job rather nicely.

 

[FFR]

Apple's is not the same as theirs though. Apple is using 3D mapping technology for what is supposed to be a legitimately secure means to use it with payment services. It's not that Apple is the first to use something like facial scanning but they're the first to roll it out as the most secure means to protect your phone.

To answer the OP, if it works great and no one misses Touch ID on the iPhone, then Android OEM's will race to adopt. it's exactly what happened with fingerprint scanners. Apple wasn't the first with that either but they made it so it was good enough for mass adoption, and secure enough.

Apple bought the company responsible for Microsoft Kinect.
Face Id is basically a miniaturised kinect.

Not really comparable to LG or Samsung’s implementation.
Two very different technologies.

 

[epicrayban]

I think Face ID will leapfrog current facial unlock mechanisms.

Facial unlock works like magic on the S8, but I predict Apple will one-up them by being faster, even more reliable, and working in the dark.

Does Face ID work with sunglasses on? Facial unlock on the S8 works with reading glasses on, but not sunglasses.


[doublepost=1507912197][/doublepost]

Exactly what I was saying weeks ago. Apple goes all in and generally doesn't like to look back. Unless FaceID fails miserably, TouchID is unlikely to return.

As far as what other OEMs do, I think we'll see most try to implement similar solutions but there will also be some that stick with FP sensors and a differentiating feature, much like how some aren't so quick to dump the headphone jack.

I think you and I made the same prediction. According to analyst Kuo, Touch ID will not be available in any new 2018 Apple iPhones. I believe this will be the case, too. Apple is moving forward with OLED and FaceID for their flagships.

Regarding your second point, I think facial unlock from competitors will improve thanks to a kick in the butt from FaceID. However, there's a rumor that Samsung is still on track to get the FPS under the display for the Note 9.

 

[widgeteer]

I think Face ID will leapfrog current facial unlock mechanisms.

Facial unlock works like magic on the S8, but I predict Apple will one-up them by being faster, even more reliable, and working in the dark.

Does Face ID work with sunglasses on? Facial unlock on the S8 works with reading glasses on, but not sunglasses.


[doublepost=1507912197][/doublepost]


I think you and I made the same prediction. According to analyst Kuo, Touch ID will not be available in any new 2018 Apple iPhones. I believe this will be the case, too. Apple is moving forward with OLED and FaceID for their flagships.

Regarding your second point, I think facial unlock from competitors will improve thanks to a kick in the butt from FaceID. However, there's a rumor that Samsung is still on track to get the FPS under the display for the Note 9.

Facial unlock on my Note 8 was fantastic...until it wasn't. Kept "forgetting" my face after a few days. Happened a few times so I stopped using it.

 

[co.ag.2005]

Facial unlock on my Note 8 was fantastic...until it wasn't. Kept "forgetting" my face after a few days. Happened a few times so I stopped using it.

yeah, Face unlock doesn't work well for me. maybe my mug is too ugly for me, I just stick to FP unlock

 

[convergent]

Of course Android handset makers are going to try and adopt similar things that Apple does, just like the reverse is true. In fact, Apple is adopting facial that has been done by the other makers, and has improved on it. That's the case will all technology progress.

That said, the problem with Apple is that they seem to like taking things away, so removing fingerprint is just a dumb decision. Face won't work in all the same use cases as fingerprint. And allowing someone to use both would make the device even more secure if they wanted to have a high security environment as an option. They call taking things away "courage" and make up excuses about how they weren't able to keep things because they didn't have room for it. Yet, Samsung has managed to build a device that has face, iris, fingerprint, a stylus with silo, a headphone jack, and storage expansion, made it waterproof, and have a better screen size to phone size ratio than anything Apple is shipping. So the "courage" and excuses are a crock.

 

[I7guy]

Of course Android handset makers are going to try and adopt similar things that Apple does, just like the reverse is true. In fact, Apple is adopting facial that has been done by the other makers, and has improved on it. That's the case will all technology progress.

That said, the problem with Apple is that they seem to like taking things away, so removing fingerprint is just a dumb decision. Face won't work in all the same use cases as fingerprint. And allowing someone to use both would make the device even more secure if they wanted to have a high security environment as an option. They call taking things away "courage" and make up excuses about how they weren't able to keep things because they didn't have room for it. Yet, Samsung has managed to build a device that has face, iris, fingerprint, a stylus with silo, a headphone jack, and storage expansion, made it waterproof, and have a better screen size to phone size ratio than anything Apple is shipping. So the "courage" and excuses are a crock.

There hasn’t been much, if any fallout from removing the headphone jack or so it seems. Apple was not “punished” by tanking sales on the iPhone 7, so they have every incentive to make broad sweeping changes on their hardware.

 

[5105973]

There hasn’t been much, if any fallout from removing the headphone jack or so it seems. Apple was not “punished” by tanking sales on the iPhone 7, so they have every incentive to make broad sweeping changes on their hardware.

They lost some customers, but apparently not enough for them to notice and they gain more every year so it balances out.

I wish they wouldn’t remove features prematurely. Well prematurely from my perspective since I’m not ready to accept it, yet. They must be extremely confident in their facial scanning tech to go all in on it as soon as they are doing. I think it’s going to be a hit because it’s a novelty and it will work. People will be amazed and delighted once the costs come down.

I intend to do away with biometric unlocks for the device itself when fingerprint scanning disappears. As I fear is inevitable since Google seems hellbent on following Apple very closely and facial scanning opens up a boatload of monetizing opportunities. Google is all about mining data and we are the product. What better marketing data is there than a record of what we react to? Samsung is heading that way with Bixby and it’s merchant partnerships.

So I’ll go back to passcodes and do what I can to disable biometrics that give away that much about myself. Eventually I’ll have technology overload and resort to scrolls, quills and owls. (I know I can joke like that with you guys...on the forum at large they freak out when I get snarky about technology and think I’m some sort of simple-minded Luddite.)

 

[convergent]

There hasn’t been much, if any fallout from removing the headphone jack or so it seems. Apple was not “punished” by tanking sales on the iPhone 7, so they have every incentive to make broad sweeping changes on their hardware.

Sometimes companies that think they are invincible lose their customer base slowly, and they don't realize it until its the aggregate of many such small losses.

I can tell you that the headphone jack was a big deal to me, and that is one of the reasons why I don't have an iPhone. Anyone who wasn't insulted by the "courage" crap and BS that they didn't have room to put a headphone jack in, make it waterproof, etc... is seriously in some kind of unhealthy relationship with their smartphone vendor. It is insulting to me for Apple to think I was stupid enough to buy their explanation. And, oh by the way, Samsung managed to keep the headphone jack, and add a stylus with silo, fingerprint/face/iris, and throw in storage expansion, AND keep it waterproof, AND have a larger screen to size ratio than anything Apple has yet to ship. I have about $600 in two Bose noise canceling wire attached headphones/earbuds that I like to use on long haul flights, and I don't want another dongle to deal with. So I'm glad not every company follows whatever Apple does.

So sometimes it takes a while to alienate enough of your customer base to have them start leaving.

 

[widgeteer]

Of course Android handset makers are going to try and adopt similar things that Apple does, just like the reverse is true. In fact, Apple is adopting facial that has been done by the other makers, and has improved on it. That's the case will all technology progress.

That said, the problem with Apple is that they seem to like taking things away, so removing fingerprint is just a dumb decision. Face won't work in all the same use cases as fingerprint. And allowing someone to use both would make the device even more secure if they wanted to have a high security environment as an option. They call taking things away "courage" and make up excuses about how they weren't able to keep things because they didn't have room for it. Yet, Samsung has managed to build a device that has face, iris, fingerprint, a stylus with silo, a headphone jack, and storage expansion, made it waterproof, and have a better screen size to phone size ratio than anything Apple is shipping. So the "courage" and excuses are a crock.

Eh. Apples and bowling balls. The Note 8's FPS is in a terrible location, and part of the reason it's terrible is because the form factor on the phone is elongated to a point it's almost comical. It's not a comfortable device to use. The 8 Plus is big but its proportions are normal, it's much easier to hold and negotiate hand to hand. Face recognition on the Note is meaningless because it's not as secure as iris or FPS, thus it's not really a value add.

I do agree that Apple should have found a means to keep the FPS though. Face ID is fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[tbayrgs]

Sometimes companies that think they are invincible lose their customer base slowly, and they don't realize it until its the aggregate of many such small losses.

I can tell you that the headphone jack was a big deal to me, and that is one of the reasons why I don't have an iPhone. Anyone who wasn't insulted by the "courage" crap and BS that they didn't have room to put a headphone jack in, make it waterproof, etc... is seriously in some kind of unhealthy relationship with their smartphone vendor. It is insulting to me for Apple to think I was stupid enough to buy their explanation. And, oh by the way, Samsung managed to keep the headphone jack, and add a stylus with silo, fingerprint/face/iris, and throw in storage expansion, AND keep it waterproof, AND have a larger screen to size ratio than anything Apple has yet to ship. I have about $600 in two Bose noise canceling wire attached headphones/earbuds that I like to use on long haul flights, and I don't want another dongle to deal with. So I'm glad not every company follows whatever Apple does.

So sometimes it takes a while to alienate enough of your customer base to have them start leaving.

I completely understand what you’re saying..and clearly you are an example of a customer that relies on and/or prefers a headphone jack. But @I7guy isn’t wrong either. The overwhelming majority of regular smartphone customers just use what’s in the box. Walking around the mall today, any wired headphones I happened to see people using were those standard, white earbuds Apple has included in the box forever. Otherwise I probably see Bose QC wireless or LG wireless neck-buds.

And the front page article illustrating Apple’s market share actually increasing across most markets over the summer reinforces @I7guy point.

And I’m not disagreeing with you regarding Apple’s ‘reasoning’ behind the move—I wish they’d just admit they see the future as wireless and that they’re forging ahead fully in that direction and just be done with it. But for the most part, people just don’t really care. They can still plug in if they need to—it just can be a tad more inconvenient in very specific circumstances.

 

[SigEp265]

I wish google's android could create one universal face id technology ... instead of each manufacturer making their own.

 

[Klyster]

Eh. Apples and bowling balls. The Note 8's FPS is in a terrible location, and part of the reason it's terrible is because the form factor on the phone is elongated to a point it's almost comical. It's not a comfortable device to use. The 8 Plus is big but its proportions are normal, it's much easier to hold and negotiate hand to hand. Face recognition on the Note is meaningless because it's not as secure as iris or FPS, thus it's not really a value add.

I do agree that Apple should have found a means to keep the FPS though. Face ID is fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

It might not be in an ideal place but I have the phone unlocked before I can look at it when taking it out of my pocket.
My Note 8 is being repaired at the moment and I'm using my Note 5, it's crazy how wide and unwieldy the Note 5 feels after using the Note 8, I never thought I would but I now prefer the rear fingerprint scanner, like I said earlier, the phone is unlocked before I get a chance to use face unlock when removing from my pocket. I Could only imagine a centralised rear scanner being quicker.
If someone manages to make the whole screen a sensor, that would be awesome.
I'm not keen on just one type of biometric unlock.

 

[that be me]

If FaceId succeeds, we’ll see a few shoddy attempts before we see something that works as well.

If it fails OEMs will point and laugh and keep doing what they’re doing.

So seyeth the bey.

 

[convergent]

Eh. Apples and bowling balls. The Note 8's FPS is in a terrible location, and part of the reason it's terrible is because the form factor on the phone is elongated to a point it's almost comical. It's not a comfortable device to use. The 8 Plus is big but its proportions are normal, it's much easier to hold and negotiate hand to hand. Face recognition on the Note is meaningless because it's not as secure as iris or FPS, thus it's not really a value add.

I do agree that Apple should have found a means to keep the FPS though. Face ID is fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

I would have agreed with you before actually using the back fingerprint reader. I've used a 6s+ for two years and using it onehanded its actually awkward to hit the home button placed TouchID. You have to support the full wait between your thumb and other fingers. Very tippy. Two handed, no problem. The Note 8 is a better form factor in my opinion, especially for one handed operation. The FPS should have been in the middle of the back though. But its still not a problem to use once you get used to it. And Sammy gives you several different options if that isn't cutting it. If Apple had just moved the FPS to the middle back... heck maid the fruit logo the FPS! And, then added FaceID... they would have had the best most secure combo. But that isn't how they roll.

I completely understand what you’re saying..and clearly you are an example of a customer that relies on and/or prefers a headphone jack. But @I7guy isn’t wrong either. The overwhelming majority of regular smartphone customers just use what’s in the box. Walking around the mall today, any wired headphones I happened to see people using were those standard, white earbuds Apple has included in the box forever. Otherwise I probably see Bose QC wireless or LG wireless neck-buds.

And the front page article illustrating Apple’s market share actually increasing across most markets over the summer reinforces @I7guy point.

And I’m not disagreeing with you regarding Apple’s ‘reasoning’ behind the move—I wish they’d just admit they see the future as wireless and that they’re forging ahead fully in that direction and just be done with it. But for the most part, people just don’t really care. They can still plug in if they need to—it just can be a tad more inconvenient in very specific circumstances.

I think the share numbers might have also been impacted by the fact that Samsung had phones that were blowing up. That probably left a little sting in their market numbers for a few quarters. Also keep in mind that Android has such a large share they can't go much higher. With the new crop of Android phones now coming out I expect that dip won't repeat. But we will see.

 

[tbayrgs]

I would have agreed with you before actually using the back fingerprint reader. I've used a 6s+ for two years and using it onehanded its actually awkward to hit the home button placed TouchID. You have to support the full wait between your thumb and other fingers. Very tippy. Two handed, no problem. The Note 8 is a better form factor in my opinion, especially for one handed operation. The FPS should have been in the middle of the back though. But its still not a problem to use once you get used to it. And Sammy gives you several different options if that isn't cutting it. If Apple had just moved the FPS to the middle back... heck maid the fruit logo the FPS! And, then added FaceID... they would have had the best most secure combo. But that isn't how they roll.



I think the share numbers might have also been impacted by the fact that Samsung had phones that were blowing up. That probably left a little sting in their market numbers for a few quarters. Also keep in mind that Android has such a large share they can't go much higher. With the new crop of Android phones now coming out I expect that dip won't repeat. But we will see.

Phones blowing up? That was a year ago. Usually over the Spring and Summer we see Android uptick’s almost across the board as large numbers of customer are waiting for the next upcoming iPhone release—I’m quite surprised that iOS marketshare gained ground in the months immediately following the Galaxy releases. By all accounts, the S8 models were supposedly a resounding success. And if anything, that dip will get noticeably bigger over period immediately following the summer as that’s prime iPhone sales territory. Even with the likely reduced sales of the iPhone 8 compared to past releases, no other models will come close to iPhones, especially with the X about to be released.

Regardless, that’s not the point of the discussion. As @I7guy pointed out, if the headphone jack was such a necessity, we would’ve seen a drop in iPhone sales since the 7 was released. That simply not happening. And if FaceID actually works as Apple is proclaiming, you won’t see a mass migration because of the loss of the FP either. Hell, you know how often everyday I see people either using phones without any security or still just using 4-digit passcodes? All the time.

 

[apolloa]

I think they will have the finger print scanners under the screen. I think Android makers will wait to see how Apples facial scanning goes before they impliment it to the same extent.