What's wrong with Religion. Or Iraq, for that matter.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sdashiki, May 18, 2007.

  1. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #1
    Didnt see anyone posting this gem of an article, so here you go.

    The girl who was stoned to death for falling in love

    link

    WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES....well, sort of. There are a couple of crappy cellphone video stills, that, without the accompanying text, wouldnt be graphic. BUT, with the text, they certainly are. Word to the wise, dont click the link unless you want to see some images that go along with the following text:

    Id say enjoy the article, but you wont.
     
  2. TequilaBoobs macrumors 6502a

    TequilaBoobs

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    #2
    thats a shame, really.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Oh no. How awful. Thanks for the new Iraq, Georgie. What a beautiful democracy it has become. :(
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    To be fair, honour killings did not start with George and Tony's little adventure. They have happened in Pakistan, Nigeria, Iran, Afghanistan and even the UK.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    But I bet they become more frequent in Iraq now.
     
  6. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #6
    Probably not actually.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA330181999
    Much as I'd like to be able to lay this at George's feet, it won't really do. This is a vile and enduring practice which has been going on for centuries. The British outlawed suttee, the ritual burning of widows, in India in the eighteenth century, but the mindset still goes on.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Why do you say that? I think Lee's right, the instances of honor killing will rise now that the religious fundamentalists are gaining power.

    Under Saddam religion was not used as an excuse to kill people. He just did it for fun.
     
  9. Sdashiki thread starter macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #9
    What DOES fall to "George's Feet" is that Iraq is "supposed" to be better than pre-Saddam.

    This is proof nothing has changed.

    If Iraq was the gleaming land of ivory and oil the Administration envisioned, this wouldnt happen as often as it used it. The fact it happens as frequently, or more, matters.
     
  10. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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  11. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #11
    Because Honour Killings are quite frequent, even, in the West Midlands. During the late 70s and early 80s there was probably one a fortnight in Coventry alone.
    It would have always happened in Iraq, it's just nowit'll be reported by papers like The Mail so they can show "how barbaric" it is over there...
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    I agree with both mactastic and sdashiki: it's certainly going to become more common in Iraq now the brakes are off.
     
  13. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #13
    Will it be more common or will the western world hear about it more?
     
  14. Sdashiki thread starter macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #14
    very appropriate here.

    just cuz its happened for hundreds, even thousands, of years before today, does not mean one has to continue the practice.

    its reasoning like that, which keeps the middle east the hotbed of "human-rights-problems" and its accompanying ilk, bubbling strong.

    one could only hope.
     
  15. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #15
    To say that this has not gotten a heck of a lot worse since the invasion is just plain ignorant.

    Religion is now running rampant in Iraq. Women are being repressed. The veil has come back, while it was practically absent under Saddam. Girls are being killed for going to school. Medieval religious codes are being enforced.

    C'mon. By universal agreement, the darkest forces of religious repression have now appeared in Iraq. Remember, under Saddam, Iraq was the largest secular Arab country in the world.

    Thanks, conservatives, for turning Iraq into a religious hell hole, with your war crime invasion. We have sown the whirlwind, and we shall reap it. This will pay "dividends" not only in Iraq, but here as well, for decades to come. Thanks, conservatives - but then again, conservatives love religion, especially the women repressing part of it.
     
  16. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #16
    I bet if they had a couple honor killings of religious leaders or heads of families whenever a member of their congregation or family did this, the practice would disappear quickly.
     
  17. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #17
    Actually if you had read the article it says that the number of these type of killings has increased since Saddam Hussein lost power.

    Not to say you can fully blame Bush, removing the main agitator in one's live usually allows ones to more openly hate lesser agitators. Just like how Iranian Shiites are somewhat helping Al-Sadr even though they hate the guy because there is a bigger agitator, the US.
     
  18. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #18
    No it will be more common. With reduced governmental authority or practically none as happens in many rural regions, ways to punish start to rely on the community and this is a clear case where a community punishes. Less authority means more "local policing" so logically and historically this practice furnishes in this kind of situation. And we really haven't heard much about it in Iraq yet, so clearly its not the media over-hyping it.
     
  19. TequilaBoobs macrumors 6502a

    TequilaBoobs

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    #19
    it's shocking to see how 'those' people are acting, when it is so far removed from our reality. but im wondering if their customs were adaptive for their region, with warring religious states a constant reminder of which side you belonged to. i get the message that fidelity is more important than lustful abandon. but what a way to enforce a rule so tragic.
     
  20. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #20
    Well you see that sort of wrongs contrary to the practice. An honor killing is for those who lose honor. The only people who have honor are women, men aren't held to this arbitrary subodaction in nearly any society. Places that take prides in virginity always speak of women losing it, not men. Its a lot harder to prove a man lost it and the fact is most people see man as having bravery or courage not as honor because no one expects them to be patient, vigilant, and not free.


    So if only women can be killed, how are you going to kill the religious leaders, they are all men? See sort of how this practice subjugates women solely.
     
  21. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #21
    I think a couple good examples of this same kind of situation without ties to the Iraqi situation can be found in Latin history and literature. I know personally that many of Garcia Marquez's novels deal extensively with the double standard of honor in women and bravery, machoism in men (I forgot the exact word). Fidelity is a great message and all, but the fact is when practiced in Iraq and in Latin America and many other strict Catholic societies, it encages the women and not the men. So in this way its one of the social constructs to subjugate women. If men were held to the same standards then I could understand it better, but it clearly is not a fair practice anywhere in the world. I think one can even find it among the Puritans that founded New England. I'm not too familiar with any works, but I do remember reading about similar practices.

    Of course I believe its not best to judge them based on how they portray women. Up until maybe a century ago, most women were just as downtrodden in the west. They may be a little behind, but prodding to "modernize" won't help, the reason for the movement has to be understood from the society.

    And the women of the middle east must feel it necessary to stand up otherwise it will never embark permeant change. And I'm not sure if its a direct correlation to religion or not, one of the most extensive women's right movements in the Middle East has been in Iran where you have a democratic theocracy in place. And Ironically up until only a couple years ago, Iran had always had a larger percentage of women in their congress than the US Congress. And there still is a very present, powerful women's movement in the Iran.

    This is the only way for change to come, naturally. That is the point. All other ways lead to increased bad side effects and possible reversal of change. Change from inside the minds of the people is better than change in its own. That is one of the key lessons of the Shah.
     
  22. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #22
    It defies all sense of logic. :cool:
     
  23. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #23
    This isn't religion, this is fundamentalism. Using religion to justify such horrible things. One of the reasons we fight so hard to keep this country less theocratic. Nobody wants that. Look at the Shias and Sunnis over there. Or the issues Ireland is just getting over. The same could happen between the various factions here. Look at how many different religions we have here. Do you think a Protestant would like Catholic rule? Or a Mormon Baptist rule? You'd think the religious types would be the ones most against theocracy here, for their own religious freedom.

    But yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that life is worse for women now in Iraq and the 'stans than it was before we invaded.
     
  24. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #24
    Religions all suck and are fictional mind control practices to gain $$$ and control over others. They stoned this girl for no reason. What does that tell you about the mindest of this religion? Muslims, they should stone the whole crowd who watched this and did nothing.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    Don't let your assumptions run away with you: these were Yezidis, not Muslims. Still wackos, but a different brand.
     

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