When the going gets tough... the liberals claim racism?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    Like many Americans I was relieved and appreciative of the Obama administration (then the Obama candidacy) for not introducing race into our policy debates. It was a refreshing change from previous black leaders and I think the end result was a heightened debate quality, among other things. I've voiced my appreciation of this fact several times on these forums.

    In recent weeks I've been increasingly saddened with the injection of race into this debate by individuals such as Maureen Dowd who imaginedJoe Wilson adding the word 'boy' after his famous 'you lie!', Janeane Garafalo claiming that all 'teabaggers' represented racism 'straight up' w/ Olbermann agreeing, and now former President Jimmy Carter is getting involved in the issue with his own outrageous and unfounded accusation of racism:

    My questions to you are the following:
    • Is this is a classical liberal ploy to shut up the opposition by claiming bigotry?
    • Do you honestly think that there's sufficient evidence in Joe Wilson yelling "you lie!" to determine racism, straight up?
    • Do you think these statements by the former president and others help or hurt the liberal cause?
    • Do they help or hurt Mr. Obama's presidency?
    • Will Obama stand up and repudiate Mr. Carter's Statements?
    • Dr. Frank Luntz and Prof. Michael Eric Dyson debated this issue on this NBC's morning show 'TODAY'. I found Mr. Dyson's comments in the last 30 seconds of the video to be particularly disturbing. Which one of these individuals do you generally agree with?
     
  2. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #2
    Wilson shouting out was out of place and shouldn't have happened. However, it wasn't racist. Wilson apologized to the President and that is where it should end.
     
  3. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    +1 Abso-freakin-lutely.
     
  4. Unspoken Demise macrumors 68040

    Unspoken Demise

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    Would have been funny if West interupted Wilson.
    "Yo, Wilson, I'm really happy for you, I'll let you finish, but Kanye had the best outburst of the year."

    To stay on topic, I agree it was not racist, and the apology should have been the end of it. I agree with ucfgrad93.
     
  5. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #5
    The race card got O.J. a "Not guilty" verdict, didn't it?

    One thing about the hard-core Left: When their argument has no rationale, they have no qualms about dragging in the race card. They just can't realize that many of us whitebreads do indeed concur with Dr. MLK: Judge by character, not color.

    'Rat
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    I don't think Wilson's outburst was about race, but I definitely do think race is behind the teabagging parties.
     
  7. geese macrumors 6502a

    geese

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    Classical? I'd say it was more freeform Jazz in style. Although there are subtle hints of Franz Schubert in this ploy I guess.
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    Retitle your thread. Jimmy Carter, Garafalo and Dowd claimed racism, not all liberals. Or are you saying that Beck, Limbaugh and Coulter represent all conservatives?
     
  9. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

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    I think its a mistake to bring up race in this debate regardless of whether or not its true. Unfortunately people will talk about what bothers them, and racism bothers black people more so than any other race, chiefly because of its history in America.

    Unfortunately, bringing UP the spectre of "racism" is such a hot button, it could easily unite people to a side of the discussion they wouldn't otherwise take.

    Carter's extended statements were unnecessary. The topic of racism should apparently be shelved whenever possible in favor of the issues. It's already such an integral undercurrent the moment you bring it up, it gets blown out of proportion on both sides.

    Regarding the interview of Prof. Michael Eric Dyson and Dr. Frank Luntz on the Today Show... I understand why Dyson sees things the way he does, but his statements were absolutely ridiculous.

    The problem is, some blacks are going to keep seeing racism where there is only hatred, injustice and anger. For so long, these have been the hallmarks, but these days? These days things just get messier to even acknowledge it. I saw someone calling Obama a "house N" the other day for calling K. West a jackass. I'm going to go ahead and wait for the political powers pendulum to swing into high gear.

    Usually a President (like Bush) hopes for a war to distract domestic unrest... Obama needs less war, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.
    He's counting Dyson as a liberal, and unfortunately, it doesn't take much hunting to find other liberals to agree. This is going to become a "thing" pretty quickly for the right. Luntx comes off VERY credible.

    I think its involved, but I doubt its "behind". It's all a mess. Word for the day? Polarization.

    ~ CB
     
  10. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #10
    Is it a classical conservative ploy to shut up the opposition by claiming they are playing the race card?

    No. I don't think there is evidence that the outburst was done from a racist standpoint. That doesn't mean that Wilson isn't a racist.
     
  11. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    Very well thought-out and thorough post Cleverboy. I agree with virtually every point you made. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I give you a lot of credit for saying things that shine an unflattering light on folks who's ideology you likely agree with more than not.


    Um... no, like Cleverboy said... it doesn't take much searching to find many other liberals who use this same tactic. In fact, I think it was YESTERDAY (or maybe the day before) that I was accused of being a racist in these forums for saying that the tea parties were not about racism and that signs directly comparing Hitler to Obama were not racist (which they weren't, they were just stupid). Suddely, the conversation went from an intelligent discussion of the parties themselves, to me being forced to defend myself. How sad. Thankfully, at least one liberal was willing to come to my defense and state the obvious. Also, in case you hadn't noticed, my 'thread title' is a question, not a statement.

    Anyway, Jimmy Carter was the President of the United States for crying out loud. Dowd would rarely be considered to be an 'extreme' liberal. She's quite mainstream from what I've seen. Clearly this is a viewpoint shared by many liberals. Question for you... are YOU willing to say that you disagree with Carter and Garafalo and Dowd? Or not?


    Right, in FACT, there isn't ANY evidence... is there? Absolutely nothing he said indicates sort of racism? NONE. You say that doesn't mean Wilson isn't a racist, well yes I suppose so... but the burden of proof isn't on Wilson or me is it? It's on anyone who calls him or anyone else a racist. In my viewpoint, real racists need to be justifiably ridiculed and scorned... but if you're going to stand up and accuse someone or some group of people of being racists... you had better come to the table with some pretty damning evidence!
     
  12. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

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    #12
    Now wait a flippin' minute... Weren't you the one who was screaming hypocrisy in other threads? Weren't you the one who was saying that just because there are crazy conservatives that we shouldn't claim all conservatives are crazy? And here you are doing the same thing. Hmmm... Who's the hypocrite now? :rolleyes:

    Of course race isn't the root of all the problems here, and to imply so is silly, on anybody's part. However, it is a factor, as Cleverboy so eloquently pointed out. And one thing is for sure, that won't change any time soon.
     
  13. leekohler, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    leekohler macrumors G5

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    #13
    No- you were called racist because you weren't condemning the racist signs that WERE there, you were deflecting the criticism and making excuses.

    Yes, I am willing to say. I don't agree that Wilson's comment is based on racism. Are YOU willing to admit that there are racist signs at Tea Party rallies?

    Thank you.
     
  14. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    Story from the BBC on varying reactions:

     
  15. Sky Blue Guest

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    Obama is a muslum and he's from Indoneasya, I mean where is his birth certificate? and no, I am NOT racist for asking these questions.
     
  16. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    You were accused of being racist because you refused to admit that a clearly racist sign was not racist. Only someone who is racist can look at something so blatantly racist and not consider it racist.

    And it wasn't the signs comparing Obama to Hitler that were racist, it was the signs with a photoshopped picture of him as an African "doctor" (I don't know what the proper term is), calling him a Muslim and to impeach him and the camel he rode in on, and the signs accusing him of being born in Kenya that were racist and you refused to admit were such.
     
  17. ucfgrad93, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    Unfortunately, there were racists at the tea parties. But to dismiss the entire movement as a bunch of racist redneck Tea Party is wrong in my opinion. There are many people who don't agree with President Obama and his policies. They should feel free to protest and speak out without being dismissed as racists.
     
  18. fivepoint, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    Well, not me. If you'll look again, you'll see that I've made no comment indicating this. I simply asked a question. Thanks for playing though.


    No, I haven't seen any blatantly obvious racist signs from the tea parties yet. That doesn't mean they don't exist, in fact... I'd be very surprised if there weren't a few racists in that crowd... I wouldn't be surprised to find a few in almost ANY crowd. and for the record, it doesn't matter if you do find one, because it has absolutely no meaning on the larger goals of the march/party. Finding a singular racist poster does not malign the movement at all in my eyes. Like UCFGrad so eloquently said:

     
  19. Sky Blue, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    Sky Blue Guest

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    So if a bunch of conservatives have racist signs, you can't dismiss the entire movement as racists.

    But, if a bunch of liberals claim racism, obviously all liberals are using racism as an excuse.

    I understand now.
     
  20. leekohler, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    leekohler macrumors G5

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    And I haven't. But to deny there isn't racism, and quite a bit of it, going on at these things is just as wrong.


    Correct, but as long as a large amount of racists are present at these rallies, they're going to have a tough time.
     
  21. abijnk, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2010

    abijnk macrumors 68040

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    And they certainly are free to. I don't think you will find anyone here saying that there aren't people at these rallies with legitimate concerns, and rightly so, because there are. But to deny that there aren't racist feelings towards the president being shown at the rallies by some of the attendees (as some have done) is just plain ignorant.

    I don't think you can look at Carter's statement as an isolated incident either. It's not like he just cooked this up to stir the pot. There ARE people who are just plain racist and they have been getting a lot of air time. While that doesn't make Carter's statement any more acceptable, it does put it in context.
     
  22. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

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    No, I never said that all liberals are using racism. Some clearly are, however.
     
  23. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    No. I didn't say he was a racist. I said there was no evidence the outburst was racially motivated.

    FYI: He did vote against removing the Confederate battle flag from the state house. That flag is a racist symbol. But it still doesn't prove he's a racist.
     
  24. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    But you have. Your term of teabaggers in describing the protesters has a very derigatory meaning doesn't it? I have never denied that racism still exists in this country. It is an unfortunate truth. And as fivepoint stated people who are racist should be called out on their absurd views.
     
  25. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    FWIW, I think if you're for flying the Confederate flag, you're a racist. The Confederate flag is the same as the swastika, and no one would argue that flying a swastika flag is racist. Slavery and genocide are of course two completely different things and entirely different levels of racism, but they're both racist.

    I believe it was them who first came up with the idea of calling it teabagging. And if not, then it's no worse than some of the words they used to refer to the left during the anti-war protests.
     

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