When Trump left the Republican Party

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #1
    I’m reading this book by Steve Kornacki called The Red and the Blue: The 1990s and the Birth of Political Tribalism. I’m currently on the chapter discussing the Reform Party battle from 1999 between Jesse Ventura/Donald Trump and Pat Buchanan. The passage below is fascinating. The Donald Trump of today is exactly the guy the Donald Trump of the 90s was attacking. Pat Buchanan did become President. It’s just his name is Donald Trump.

    (Buchanan comments start around the 4:40 mark)
     
  2. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #2
    He's definitely talking about himself there. Kinda scary.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #3
    Republican Party has left many. Fiscal conservatives are gone :(
     
  4. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #4
    It is freaky how much this Donald Trump is like Pat Buchanan. The only difference is anti-semitism but we all know the only reason Trump is so pro Israel is because he knows he’s toast without the support of evangelicals.
     
  5. VictorTango777 macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Why would evangelical Christians be pro Israel? Jews don't believe that Jesus is the son of God. Jews want all men to be circumcised. They also have more restrictions on what people can or can't eat. And many of them speak Hebrew instead of American.
     
  6. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    #6
    Trump was dismissive of Buchanan right up to when he got in the game himself again in 2016... and then took Buchanan's whole playbook and ran with it, pandering to xenophobes from the get-go.

    Trump saw the possibility that assaults on "political correctness" with a sotto voce pass for racist attitudes, plus an anti-immigration and anti-NAFTA platform, could probably play out pretty well. The 2016 political season had ushered in a clearly populist moment, with ordinary Americans on right and left feeling undervalued, underemployed and/or just left behind --a breeding ground for xenophobia and distrust of establishment politics-- and Trump went for it and pretty much sold it in to a newly energized base.

    Trump's ways since his election often cause me to flash back to watching the 1992 speech that Pat Buchanan made at the Houston convention that re-nominated Bush 41. I could not believe that the GOP had permitted Buchanan to speak in that way in that venue.

    He was to meant merely to rally his erstwhile followers to the cause of GHW Bush for the general election season to come, but I do not know to this day if the RNC had actually vetted the "Cultural War" speech that Buchanan delivered. If you've never read or seen it, you should. The text of it and video are here: link

    Buchcanan came charging out less to remind his supporters that the job now ahead of them was to support Bush, but more to inform America right off the bat that the Democrats were the enemy in a cultural war he was declaring:

    "My friends -- My friends, like many of you -- like many of you last month, I watched that giant masquerade ball up at Madison Square Garden, where 20,000 liberals and radicals came dressed up as moderates and centrists in the greatest single exhibition of cross-dressing in American political history."

    In the end that 1992 speech proved a significant turning point for the fracturing Republican Party and not in a good way for either that party or the country. Bush had the nomination, yet in the fall that year, Bush lost and Bill Clinton won despite Buchanan's vicious attacks against the Clintons (both Clintons), and against feminism, gays, abortion rights, protection of spotted owls... the entire laundry list of despised platforms of the Democratic Party. Plus some co-opting references to religion, implying they were Republican observances, and the need for voluntary prayer in schools, and for law and order to prevail over events like riots in Los Angeles.

    Very little was left to the imagination in the call to a cultural war, except for outright description of which people exactly were to be the armies of the right. Buchanan was careful not to specify races or religions except for a reference to the "brave people of Koreatown" in the LA riots. He settled for dissing ways of being and entertainment preferences that he attributed to cities and celebrated instead the "family values" of small towns. The GOP audience that night apparently got the picture and may have been thrilled (or, not) but all that was to no immediate practical avail in November, when Bill Clinton defeated Bush 41's re-election effort.

    Still, that August 1992 evening in Houston represented a crucial if slow pivot for the GOP. It was one that white supremacists remembered for its litany of hatreds and declaration of a cultural war in America. It helped jumpstart the grassroots efforts of Republicans to win "the cultural war" at school board and town council levels. It put a crimp on environmental protection agency efforts. And... it eventually allowed Trump to bring white supremacists into the foreground of Republican politics in 2016 and right into the White House in 2017.
     
  7. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #7
    The GOP of today no longer care about "fiscal conservatism" (i.e. having a frugal mindset and saving money for the sake of the nation's future posterity).

    Instead they focus on SOCIAL issues…. like deciding what gender can go into public restrooms, deciding what gender(s) or transgender can or cannot serve in the military, and of course their eternal crusade against the entire LGBTQ population which they consider social deviants. Which also leads to their blind embrace of extreme evangelical Christianity (a major ally in the crusade against LGBTQ).

    Donald Trump's GOP is nothing like the GOP of Ronald Reagan in the 80s. Trump hasn't even finished his 1st term and already his deficit is predicted to surpass Obama's.


     
  8. thingstoponder macrumors 6502

    thingstoponder

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    If you look at old interview it's clear while he was always an eccentric character he at least had a brain and could string sentences together. Either he pretends to be dumb or he just got old but he hasn't been the same for at least a decade.

    Either way he's an egomaniac and opportunist who probably only believe a little bit of what he says, he thought he could break through as a third party candidate so he criticized Buchanan. If in 2016 he thought he had a better chance to get elected as a Democrat then he would say whatever he though the leftmost part of the party wanted to hear. He chose to be a Republican which is why his primary weapon now is bigotry. It's what they want and never got from previous Republicans and it's why he will never slip below ~38 percent approval.
     
  9. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #9
    It’s now the Trump Party ... and someone is going to run on it and win in 2024.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Is the plan to suspend the 2024 election? Because how will the republicans keep winning with an openly racist, likely rapist, likely pedophile as it’s last president? What happens when the Democratic Party starts running attack ads on that?
     
  11. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #11
    All hail Jared!
     
  12. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #12
    that's not how ponzi schemes work.
     
  13. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #13
    I can't believe conservatives turned their party over to one of those elitist morons who wouldn't know a hard day of work or what its like to go to church from the difference between smocking and smoking.
     
  14. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #14
    I have no idea. All I know is the biggest pro Israel crowd in the United States are evangelical Christians. Donald Trump’s position on Israel and Iran is 100% to appease evangelical Christians. If he doesn’t have their support he doesn’t win. Period.
     
  15. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #15
    I think a better description would be is that Trump pulled the Republican party in a different direction.

    My opinion only but I don't see the Republican party returning to what they were.

    I also don't see the Trump style of politics going away for either party.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 19, 2019 ---
    The Democrats should win presidential elections but they insist on running to the left making elections about who the voters dislike less.
     
  16. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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  17. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #17
    More precisely, any willingness to consider ethical competence as a requirement (or even a valid consideration) in a Republican leader has left the building.
     
  18. DanielDD macrumors 6502

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    #18
    In 2016 the DNC actively helped a centrist candidate in winning the primaries. They were called out for it.
    In 2019 the DNC is not helping anyone. They are called out for it.

    By the way, I've seen the debates and candidates do not strike me as "extreme-left". They are moderate politicians by any European standard or even pre-Reagan American standard. The fact that you call extreme-left for a candidate that wants public healthcare / education shows to me that american society leans very much to the right
     
  19. rdrr macrumors 6502a

    rdrr

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    #19
    Nah, Trump is the only one that can carry off "Trumpism". I am not a fan in anyway, but everyone else who try to play it, ends up looking like a weak jackass. I think when he is no longer able to run, the next person up will have a tough time to either re-introduce the Republican party to is core beliefs or play up to the base and fail miserably.
     
  20. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #20
    So, video proves Chaos45 did not change since the 90's.

    America (world?) changed that allowed a once rejected candidate to be given the most powerful chair in world.

    Sad part is 1990's T probably would be better POTUS than 2010's T
    --- Post Merged, Jul 19, 2019 ---
    Exhibit A: Lindsey Graham

    Its all about staying in power, to hell with anything else.
    Mucho sad.
     
  21. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #21
    Wait until the 2024 Election... someone will run on the Trump vision of America first and keeping America great.

    Probably another non politician.
     
  22. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #22
    Lots of people have ran on the Trump vision of racism and bigotry (or "America first"). We were usually smart enough to marginalize them and bump them out.

    Ted Nugent/James Woods 2024.
     
  23. appleisking macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Why don’t you run since you’re so confident about it
     
  24. Ledgem macrumors 68000

    Ledgem

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    #24
    While it's true that the majority of Jews don't believe Jesus is the son of God or a messiah (although there is a small group known as Jews for Jesus who do), Jews don't care that all men be circumcised, they care that their own men be circumcised. Similarly, their dietary restrictions are largely limited to themselves - they don't care if someone, somewhere in the world is eating pork. Imposing beliefs and way of life, or even trying to coerce people into them, is more of a Christian thing (or extremist Muslim, I suppose). "Hebrew instead of American" is an interesting statement... I assure you that the vast majority of Jews in America speak English, and if anything, there is concern that most don't speak Hebrew and are losing connections to their roots.

    As to why Evangelicals support Israel, there are a variety of reasons. I found a book that explores this topic in greater detail; here's a copy-paste (with the addition of some bolding to make it easier for people skimming the thread) of the abstract, that touches on some of the reasons:

     
  25. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #25
    Bingo. Others who've played the Trump game failed.
     

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24 July 18, 2019