When will the IBM 970's debut?

MacManiac1224

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 21, 2001
227
0
NY
That is really the big question on all our minds? They say late 2003, I am not sure, but Apple could do something like this:

Scenario 1:
Come out with 970's in the last MWNY in Apple history, really making MW one of the biggest Apple events for a long time.

Scenario 2:
Come out with the chip in a special announcement in the October - Novermber area of 2003.

Scenario 3:
Come out with the chip in MWSF 2004.

I personally hope they come out with the chip in MWNY 2003, but only Steve knows. Specs? I can only guess:

Low end:
dual 1.8ghz
100gb hard drive
256mb of memory
CDRW
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

Middle of the road:
dual 2.0ghz
120gb hard drive
512mb of memory
Superdrive II
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

High End:
quad 2.2ghz
160gb hard drive
1gb of memory
Superdrive II
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

I think these specs are beaing pretty reasonable, not sure of the waud though, but I think it is a possiblity. Also, with the ability to go with 8 processors, I think we might see some high-end servers coming out of the pipe-line from Apple within the next 2 years.

What do you guys think?
 

jelloshotsrule

macrumors G3
Feb 7, 2002
9,591
3
serendipity
i doubt we'll see dual. much less quad

it's nearly a year ahead. very hard to speculate on such things.

who knows if this thing will even find its way into a mac...
 

TheFink

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2002
39
0
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i doubt we'll see dual. much less quad

it's nearly a year ahead. very hard to speculate on such things.

who knows if this thing will even find its way into a mac...
MWSF 2004 earliest. If you think any earlier, you're not being realistic. Apple is a CUSTOMER of IBM. They will get them in mass quantities when IBM says so.
 

benixau

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2002
1,307
0
Sydney, Australia
maybe, maybe not

Originally posted by TheFink


MWSF 2004 earliest. If you think any earlier, you're not being realistic. Apple is a CUSTOMER of IBM. They will get them in mass quantities when IBM says so.
And if apple want to buy 2000 of those things IBM isnt about to say no. It may say hang on a month we need to get them but never no.

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i doubt we'll see dual. much less quad
No, the top of the line pmac will beat least a dual, has been for ages. Also with the multi processoing capabilities of the new chips, i think we may end up seeing quads, maybe at the end of life stage, but still quads.

And no intel, AMD or any other x86 cr@p i know can go quad. hmmm 4x1.8Ghz. All with altivec running photoshop 8 optimised for quad altivec.

Furture situation: hey mate when are you going to finish that photoshop filter thing on the tiff.
Arent you done yet, took me a few seconds, what are you using?
P4 3.2Ghz, what have you got
PM Quad 1.8Ghz, i was getting my sons assignment done whilst i waited for you to get your bit done,
(drooling in pants, wife comes by and runs off crying)


we will dream, but then thats what rumour sites are for.
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,111
0
San Diego, CA
Re: maybe, maybe not

Originally posted by benixau
…
No, the top of the line pmac will beat least a dual, has been for ages. Also with the multi processoing capabilities of the new chips, i think we may end up seeing quads, maybe at the end of life stage, but still quads.
…
It's been "dual for ages" because that's the only way for Apple to remain competitive using Moto's chips.

If the PowerPC 970 performs as well as it's rumored to, the dual/quad scenario is not neccessary for performance equivalent to the x86 platform.

Dual is still a good candidate for the top end, but keeping prices lower w/ single CPUs is the way to go.
 

Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,913
25
Ha ha haaa!
Originally posted by TheFink


MWSF 2004 earliest. If you think any earlier, you're not being realistic. Apple is a CUSTOMER of IBM. They will get them in mass quantities when IBM says so.
I agree completely. I'm sure Apple is chomping at the bit to get these processors into some new PowerMacs and blow the friggin' competition out of the water, BUT to say that they'll have them ready by MWNY and a few months ahead of the projected date is probably, let's face it, just not gonna happen. I'd rather they take their time (ok, not THAT much time) and put out a quality piece of hardware than rush a half-baked stop-gap comp out the door and have another Yikes fiasco.
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
If it is single processors that means they will be out quicker (less to order from IBM) and be cheaper (only buying one processor, not 2). I think it will be only 1 processor. Maybe dual on the high end. I am hoping there will be a price drop more then anything.
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: maybe, maybe not

Originally posted by benixau


And no intel, AMD or any other x86 cr@p i know can go quad. hmmm 4x1.8Ghz.
Quad x86 is easy, Xeon, Pentium Pro, Itanium, will all go Quad, and some beyond.

This is not consumer hardware.
 

Chaszmyr

macrumors 601
Aug 9, 2002
4,265
76
Quad of a Power4 chip? *laughs* Yes its doable if you want to pay 15 thousand dollars for your powermac. The whole point of IBM's new chip is to bring multiprocessor server-like performance to a single desktop chip. I am guessing if indeed Apple uses this new chip that one of them will probably cost Apple more than 2 of the exisiting 1.25ghz PowerPC chips
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: When will the IBM 970's debut?

Originally posted by MacManiac1224
That is really the big question on all our minds? They say late 2003, I am not sure, but Apple could do something like this:

Scenario 1:
Come out with 970's in the last MWNY in Apple history, really making MW one of the biggest Apple events for a long time.

Scenario 2:
Come out with the chip in a special announcement in the October - Novermber area of 2003.

Scenario 3:
Come out with the chip in MWSF 2004.

I personally hope they come out with the chip in MWNY 2003, but only Steve knows. Specs? I can only guess:

Low end:
dual 1.8ghz
100gb hard drive
256mb of memory
CDRW
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

Middle of the road:
dual 2.0ghz
120gb hard drive
512mb of memory
Superdrive II
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

High End:
quad 2.2ghz
160gb hard drive
1gb of memory
Superdrive II
Gigawire?
Graphics? Nvidia Geforce5?

I think these specs are beaing pretty reasonable, not sure of the waud though, but I think it is a possiblity. Also, with the ability to go with 8 processors, I think we might see some high-end servers coming out of the pipe-line from Apple within the next 2 years.

What do you guys think?

You have a problem.

The IBM release says that it will be released with a max of 1.8Ghz. Manufacturors rarely understate the potential specs of a cpu or anything for that matter.

Also to everyone else dual and quads are very possible. Has everyone forgot that this chip is capabe of multiple cores. In other words one wafer can hold 2 or 4 or possibly more cpus. No reason to buy two separate cpus and no need for gigantic cpu cards holding multiple chips.
 

nixd2001

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2002
179
0
UK
Re: When will the IBM 970's debut?

Originally posted by MacManiac1224
That is really the big question on all our minds? They say late 2003, I am not sure,
An alternative timeline that does not contradict anything that IBM have said is:

Q4 2002: Small quantities of engineering samples are made at Fishkill to prove the fab and to provide Apple with the ability to start checking Mac OS X.

Q1 2003: Fishkill fab characterised. Further samples supplied to Apple, but running at intended production specifications. Apple starts designing production level motherboard.

Q2 2003: Apple commits to production of motherboard, new machines using this and purchasing 970s from IBM.

Q3 2003: Product hits the street, 9-12 months ahead of alternative schedules.

I haven't the foggiest if this will happen, but it doesn't seem to contradict what IBM are saying and seems a reasonable use of getting the fab line working.

Also, ponder the issue that others have raised about pending 970 machines putting PMG4 buyers off, waiting for new machines. This all seems to come down to when Apple actually ships versus when people think they will ship. If they ship on time or late, Apple's sales get chopped brutally. If the come out with something earlier than expected, then all those people doing the "I'm waiting for the 970 before buying" will be in a put up or shut up situation - and most will probably splash out.

So, start scouring for any indication of whether 970 has "taped out" yet or not. If it hits tape out in the next month (or so), then the above schedule is doable if Apple are prepared to go with the financial commitment to back it up.
 

Kid Red

macrumors 65816
Dec 14, 2001
1,379
87
Originally posted by TheFink


MWSF 2004 earliest. If you think any earlier, you're not being realistic. Apple is a CUSTOMER of IBM. They will get them in mass quantities when IBM says so.
Wrong. Next fall.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: Re: When will the IBM 970's debut?

Originally posted by nixd2001


An alternative timeline that does not contradict anything that IBM have said is:

Q4 2002: Small quantities of engineering samples are made at Fishkill to prove the fab and to provide Apple with the ability to start checking Mac OS X.

Q1 2003: Fishkill fab characterised. Further samples supplied to Apple, but running at intended production specifications. Apple starts designing production level motherboard.

Q2 2003: Apple commits to production of motherboard, new machines using this and purchasing 970s from IBM.

Q3 2003: Product hits the street, 9-12 months ahead of alternative schedules.

I haven't the foggiest if this will happen, but it doesn't seem to contradict what IBM are saying and seems a reasonable use of getting the fab line working.

Also, ponder the issue that others have raised about pending 970 machines putting PMG4 buyers off, waiting for new machines. This all seems to come down to when Apple actually ships versus when people think they will ship. If they ship on time or late, Apple's sales get chopped brutally. If the come out with something earlier than expected, then all those people doing the "I'm waiting for the 970 before buying" will be in a put up or shut up situation - and most will probably splash out.

So, start scouring for any indication of whether 970 has "taped out" yet or not. If it hits tape out in the next month (or so), then the above schedule is doable if Apple are prepared to go with the financial commitment to back it up.
I wonder if the production time line would even allow this. Either way I think it will be fall to winter next year before we see this chip in any computer. We still don't have any positive announcement from Apple claiming that they WILL use it in a desktop. All we know at this point is Apple is going to buy some and most likely just for mule boxes and testing for the time being.
 

benixau

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2002
1,307
0
Sydney, Australia
Re: Re: maybe, maybe not

Originally posted by Nipsy


Quad x86 is easy, Xeon, Pentium Pro, Itanium, will all go Quad, and some beyond.

This is not consumer hardware.
Sorry yes you are right. What i meant was that they dont give it to regular consumers. If apple were to do that, even its top machines it would have the market to itself. The quad market that is. Just they have to keep the prices within 200 or 300 dollars of the current ones. If they can then ..... intel?? who is intel. AMD, werent they some little chip maker for intel??
 

snoopy

macrumors member
Jul 30, 2002
61
0
Portland, OR
This was posted by someone getting information from the forum I believe:

IBM POWER4 based processor. - PPC 970

Target process - 0.13um SOI 8 layer Cu interconnect
Target frequency 1.4 ~ 1.8 GHz
Target sample date 2Q03
Target ship date 2H03
Power 42W @ 1.8 GHz 1.3V (low power mode @ 1.1 V)

Est. SPEC INT 937 @ 1.8 GHz
Est. SPEC FP 1051 @ 1.8 GHz

Chip features: Elastic unidirectional point-to-point interconnects between CPU and "companion chip" (i.e. memory controller/northbridge) Elastic link may run "UP TO" 900 MHz, offering 6.4 GB/s of memory bandwidth.

POWER4 internals. Max of 8 inst fetch per cycle, 8 inst issue per cycle, and 5 (4 + branch) inst dispatch per cycle.

32 KB L1 Dcache, 64 KB L1 Icache.
512K L2.

32 64 bit GPR (general purpose register)
32 64 bit FPR (float)
32 128 bit VRF (vector)
 

AngusB

macrumors member
Jun 28, 2002
39
0
Washington DC
Don't Forget

There is also the fact the people were looking at the new PM motherboards and saying...hmmm...this could be used for something else...

Also, if IBM is going to mass ship the the chips in 2Q2003, then Apple already has the engineering samples...


AngusB
 

snoopy

macrumors member
Jul 30, 2002
61
0
Portland, OR
Re: Don't Forget

Originally posted by AngusB


. . . Also, if IBM is going to mass ship the the chips in 2Q2003, then Apple already has the engineering samples. . .

They've had engineering samples for quite some time I would expect. It will ship in the second half of 2003. Samples (from manufacturing output) will be in 2Q2003. IBM's target dates from the information a couple replies back.
 

zac4mac

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2002
306
2
near Boulder, CO. USA
I'm betting the date stated by IBM yesterday is a Red Herring.

The new fab at Fishkill began operation late Spring/early Summer
A few months ago, G5 rumors were way rampant.
A red MoBo with a SINGLE processor shows up on e-bay(cocked at a 45 degree angle, no less).
Stories abounded about "superfast" powermac protos.

I think IBM is already making the 970, has been for several months and Apple has a bunch of proto boxes, already debugging.
Notice they say the 970 will come out at .13micron, but the Fishkill fab goes to .09micron next Spring(hearsay).

I'll be buying a new tower next year...
 

nixd2001

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2002
179
0
UK
Originally posted by zac4mac
I'm betting the date stated by IBM yesterday is a Red Herring.

The new fab at Fishkill began operation late Spring/early Summer
A few months ago, G5 rumors were way rampant.
A red MoBo with a SINGLE processor shows up on e-bay(cocked at a 45 degree angle, no less).
Stories abounded about "superfast" powermac protos.

I think IBM is already making the 970, has been for several months and Apple has a bunch of proto boxes, already debugging.
Notice they say the 970 will come out at .13micron, but the Fishkill fab goes to .09micron next Spring(hearsay).
Where there any numbers on the top of this chip? Can the sequence 970 be seen anywhere on it, or something identifying IBM?