when your belifs are more important then your childs life.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by steve knight, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    This church though I use the term loosely since it is really just a home church in a building. They have killed quite a few of their children because god chose not to heal them.
    I love how this loving god lets children die when it would be easy for a doctor to heal them. They treat god like he is a idiot that has to micromanage everything. God is not smart enough to make doctors to heal the sick he has to do everything himself. but in reality the parents choose to leave their child's heath up to someone else. they will not take the responsibility to keep their child healthy.
    this is the third criminal case for this church in a few years. in fact there was a law passed just because of their practices. the church graveyard is full of children and adults who died needlessly.

    OREGON CITY, Ore. (AP) - An Oregon judge has refused to return a 7-month-old girl with a serious eye condition to a couple who belong to a faith-healing church.

    Clackamas County Circuit Court Judge Douglas Van Dyk made that decision Wednesday after hearing testimony that the child could lose the sight in one eye because she didn't get medical care.

    Parents Timothy and Rebecca Wyland promised they would provide whatever treatment was required by the court or the state Department of Human Services.

    The judge said doctors are still devising a treatment plan.

    "The risks are great for this child," Van Dyk said.

    A doctor testified that a fast-growing mass of blood vessels caused the little girl's left eye to shut, pushed the eyeball down and outward, and affected the eye socket.

    Little Alayna could lose vision in the eye and probably will need surgery, said Dr. Thomas Valvano, a pediatrician at Doernbecher Children's Hospital at Oregon Health & Science University.

    "This was medical neglect," Valvano said.

    The parents said they never considered getting medical attention for the growth and would not have if the state had not intervened.

    The Wylands are members of the Followers of Christ church, which avoids most secular medical care, relying on faith-healing rituals to treat illness.

    The state medical examiner's office has reported that during the past 30 years more than 20 children of church members have died of preventable or curable illnesses.

    In March, two other church members were sentenced to prison for criminally negligent homicide in the 2008 death of their teenage son.

    Lawyers for the Wylands said the couple weren't given a chance to obtain medical care after DHS got involved late last month and have been largely excluded from medical appointments.

    Deputy District Attorney Colleen Gilmartin asked Rebecca Wyland why she didn't take Alayna to a doctor.

    "Because I believe in God and put my faith in him," she replied.

    In answer to a question, Timothy Wyland said he too puts his faith in God. If his daughter did not improve, "that's his will," he said.

    Gilmartin said there is an ongoing criminal investigation in the case.

    Child welfare workers got a tip in June that the child was suffering from an untreated medical problem. A caseworker took the child to the hospital June 30; she has been in foster care since being discharged July 5.

    Van Dyk said the family should be reunited but due to the severity of Alayna's condition, that should wait until a treatment plan exists and monitoring is in place to guarantee the parents will follow the plan.


    Information from: The Oregonian, http://www.oregonlive.com
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4


    Nov 3, 2005
    The kid should be taken into care. The parents are irresponsible.
  3. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a


    Apr 22, 2004
    San Diego, CA
    Reminds me of the old joke where a man is standing on his roof during a flood, the water rising, and a guy in a canoe paddles by to rescue him. He declines saying, "God will save me." Then a guy in a boat comes by to rescue him, same response, "God will save me." Then a helicopter flies over and drops down a ladder with the water really high now, but same response, "God will save me."

    Finally the water gets so high that the man drowns. He meets God face-to-face in the afterlife and says, "God, where where you? I waited for you to save me." "What are you talking about, I send a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter? Why didn't you accept my help?"

    Okay, so it's not a very good joke.
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040


    Jan 14, 2002
    totally cool
    ^^^ I've heard that before, it is a great joke. You can actually glean some deep meaning in that.
  5. niuniu macrumors 68020


    Mar 29, 2009
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    We had a spat of these cases some time ago in the UK - I think all of them were brought against Jehovah Witnesses. Some cases were criminal others in tort - the position now as I remember it is the common sense one - that the parents have a duty of care just like a non religious family have over their child. And that only where a suitable medically proven alternative is available can the parents opt against a normal medical cure or treatment for their child (like saline solution as an alternative to blood).

    I think these cases were quite in depth and covered a lot of ground but I really can't remember that much about it anymore.
  6. chrmjenkins macrumors 603


    Oct 29, 2007
    These people should never have sex. If God wanted them to have children, he'd make it happen. He's done it before.
  7. MattSepeta macrumors 65816


    Jul 9, 2009
    375th St. Y
    Ugh, stupid. I can't stand hearing about these stories. Same kind of thing happened here in MN not too long ago when parents denied their cancer-ridden son the proper treatment. A few Years went by, and word got out that the father had been diagnosed with some sort of ailment and was being treated at a hospital for it :mad:

    Another good joke I heard:

    A lifelong atheist was walking in the woods, and noticed a bear hunting him down. Just as the bear was about to attack, the man started to pray to god.

    He said :God, please save me!

    And god replied: Why? You have spent your life ridiculing the very notion of me!

    So the guy said: I know, I know, I'm very sorry! I wish I would have been a christian!

    And God says: Im sorry son, I can not help you in that way

    The guy says: Ok, well can you at least help the bear to become a christian in this very moment??

    God thinks about it, and says: Yes, I suppose that would be the merciful thing to do....

    So the Bear stops, mid-lunge. He sits down, says a quick meal prayer, then righteously devours the guy for dinner :D
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040


    Apr 24, 2003
    Fair enough. And if I kick you in the ding-ding, that's God's will too. :rolleyes:
  9. TorontoLRT macrumors 6502

    Jun 4, 2010
    Toronto, Duh!
    No one should die for someone else's religious beliefs. If someone old enough to give informed consent does not want medical care for religious reasons, then fine, he has the right to die. But these children are far too young to decide, and their parents cannot make life-or-death decisions on their behalf based solely on religion.
  10. jav6454 macrumors P6


    Nov 14, 2007
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    This is an example of extreme Christian behavior. There are many chrisitans out there strong God believers who would no doubt say modern medicine is the best thing and they thank God for it when it is used to heal. (See all the many Christian based hospitals in the US).

    Near where I am at right now there is the Loma Linda Hospital. Great placed (saved Grandma) and it's run by the SDA church.

    Anyways back on topic. These parents should have the kid taken away from them.
  11. Counterfit macrumors G3


    Aug 20, 2003
    sitting on your shoulder
    There was a cult in this area that went even further. They starved otherwise perfectly healthy children.
    Some info. WAAAYY more info.
  12. niuniu macrumors 68020


    Mar 29, 2009
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    ^^ That Sect is sick. Image how removed from reality those people must have been.
  13. bobob macrumors 68030


    Jan 11, 2008
    This issue puts the whole current holy war into perspective - - children are dying left and right for beliefs.
  14. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    they only killed two this church Posted they figure they have 20 to 30 children that died that could have been saved. they don't even begin to count the adults that have died.
    it's pretty bad when your church is the cause of a new law being passed.
  15. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    I think this church was founded by a hospital administrator, a high ranking health insurance company executive, and a funeral home operator.

    When they were drunk at a bar, and decided to answer the question "How can we reduce the cost of medical care?" and decided that getting people to stop coming to hospitals for care would work.

    And the funeral home operator thought it was great for business, and funded them.

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