Where do Libertarians draw the line?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by AP_piano295, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #1
    Libertarianism as a movement is very much in favor of broad brush generalizations.

    Examples:

    1.) Taxes = Stealing
    2.) Less government = Better government

    Do they actually want no taxes?

    What should the little tax we pay be spent on?

    Should we be regulating food quality, or should we rely on the market for all quality control?

    Should we even have a centralized government, maybe every town in the country should rule itself, no uniform currency just a barter system.

    Should we be funding basic research (national science foundation) or should we just assume that companies will pursue all avenues of scientific study even if it isn't readily apparent that these studies have any monetary value.

    I'm tired of hearing all the generalized "the best government is a small government" "keep your hands off my money" crap.

    How would Libertarians run the country if they had the chance what would happen to all these programs currently funded by tax payers?
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    And what do you do with the poor? Nothing? Have them grow even more destitute than they already are? Their children too?

    If that is the direction you want to take things, I have one word for you... shantytowns.

    Coming to a location near you.
     
  3. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #3
    Children??

    Why would they bring children into their World of destitution?

    Never mind, it's a rhetorical question. They have their lust. It is enough.
     
  4. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #4
    I know I lean libertarian on a lot of issues but I can only speak for myself.
    I think that's a problem with our politics in general. No one ever gets specific on the campaign trail. Why? Because the truth is we all seem to like certain aspects of government spending. Those on medicare don't want their medicare shut down or reduce. Ditto for those in the military. Those contractors certainly don't want a reduction in the military budget. And of course the chest-thumpers will cry fowl despite having talked about smaller government a week earlier.
    I'm sure the minarchist thinks this but I don't. Listening to some outspoken and loud pundits it's no wonder why people like you go away thinking such and such person believes taxes are nothing more than extortion. I think it's mostly emotion from being taxed too much in their opinion.
    Taxes won't be done away with. It'll probably be a flat tax or some sort of consumption tax. Hopefully not both on the federal level. :p The rate would be low forcing the federal government to cut the budget. But then again who am I to predict what a politician will do? Maybe the focus will be to simply keep the current system but reduce the rate.
    Most likely infrastructure to allow smooth commerce. I'd focus my energy on education, energy, and infrastructure. It's not like the government ceases to exist if a libertarian comes into power. Or that the FTC suddenly disappears...
    The answer I always hear is having the states or counties decide. I'd, on the other hand, have pretty strict food safety. Have these companies list exactly what's in their products and have the information publicly available as to what processes they use to make the food for the purposes of having an informed consumer.
    No, I think libertarians like federalism. Ron Paul wants the gold standard. I don't think that's viable.
    You'll have to get specific. One would hope this would analyzed case by case. A broad brush cut or cancelation would be stupid in my opinion.
    Me too.
    Hard to say.
     
  5. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #5
    Are you crazy? Who's going to give them their scraps of lumber and cardboard? The government, I suppose? That's stealing from me! Those poor people need to realize they deserve to be poor because they are lazy and wicked, and it is their moral obligation to lay down and die so I don't have to know they exist. And whatever pansy gets sick of the stench of rotting flesh in the streets first gets responsibility to pay to clean it up on his own dime, because it ain't my problem. I'm still paying off my boat.
     
  6. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #6
    Libertarianism is pretty much a joke. Next they're gonna want state militias instead of a US army. If this country was run the way they wanted, it would be a major threat to our security.

    Libertarianism=Anarchy
     
  7. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #7
    Your analysis of libertarianism is a joke.
     
  8. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #8
    The punchline is: I am a democrat, libertarian, conservative, anti-federalist marxist. It all depends on what we are discussing, and how I choose to align those terms. It is a bit like 5P's graph of who self-identifies as conservative, moderate or liberal: what do those words mean, and how broadly applicable are the to my opinion set?
     
  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #9
    Well, if you are intent on being all grey-like, I guess some here can just bow-out.
     
  10. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #10
    Hardly. I was almost certainly born on this planet and would not pretend to be a wrinkly extra-terrestrial.
     
  11. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #11
    Sounds a whole lot like anarchy.

    Country would faction off into zones ruled by drug lords, a lot like Somalia.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    Look no further than this film to see the results of the Libertarian dream. Metropolis, a place where the only person rewarded financially is the person with an idea, not the people who actually do the work to make the idea a reality:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSExdX0tds4

    Welcome to Libertarian paradise.
     
  13. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #13
    Yeah not at all, thats the sad part....
     
  14. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #14
    'Libertarianism'—as widely preached in present-day America—is little more than a fantasy, a political wet dream. An interesting thought experiment, sure, but a real political philosophy that should be pursued, absolutely not.

    If we pursued this 'libertarianism', we could certainly come to expect:

    Massive corporate exploitation of workers
    Power concentrated in the hands of those with the most money
    Money further concentrated among those with the most money
    Violence, controlled by those with the most money and the biggest guns
    Criminal mobs with bigger guns than most people
    Widespread abuse of the environment
    Inability to compete in the global economy
    Decreasing literacy
    Localized theocracy
    Violations of human rights and (shockingly!) liberty
    Deeper, more unequal 'patchworking' of quality-of-life & human development between states


    Hell if I want to live there...
     
  15. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Cite?
     
  16. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #16
    "Libertarianism" is anything but Anarchy, libertarianism on the other hand is Anarchy.

    Somalia again is the opposite of Anarchy it's an area ruled by competing Governments.
     
  17. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #17
    A drug lord/war lord does not = government. Somalia is a single nation with a very small, limited government (and almost zero taxes) whose territories have been taken over by the dudes with the biggest $$$ and guns. A libertarian utopia.

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107979.html
     
  18. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Its very hard to analyze what Libertarians actually think though. So far your the only one to post in this thread.

    People on this form have posted videos which DO classify all taxes as stealing.

    You might be a fairly "moderate" libertarian but are your views actually indicative of what most Libertarians think?

    Libertarians like Ron Paul on never very clear on what programs are good/bad whatever.

    Are you in the Sarah Palin camp which defines anything like spending 2 million on the study of bear genetics as a waste?
     
  19. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19
    When has a libertarian system ever worked (any time in history will due).

    People left to their own devices are historically stupid and short sited organisms. Government regulations help to keep us from destroying ourselves as we strive to satisfy our short term desires.

    This is an idea that really seems to bug "libertarians" they hate the idea that the government might ever function as a parental figure. Because they don't want or need a "mommy" state.

    Basically libertarians could be defined as 8 year olds who don't understand why they can't have cookies for dinner....
     
  20. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #20
    That is pretty much the definition of government.
     
  21. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #21
    I believe Libertarians draw the line at the point where... Oh, wait. Looks like you've already got it figured out.

     
  22. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #22
    No, Some governments, like our own, are elected by popular vote.
     
  23. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #23
    We dont

    We dont, thats why we are awesome.

    :rolleyes:


    Here, let me do some work for you....

    Libertarian Party Issues

    Reason Magazine

    Now I realize that a full blown "libertarian" government is unrealistic, it would certainly be nice to to swing back in that direction.

    Here is another good link, 101 reasons to move to New Hampshire, widely considered the "most free" state in the union. Note reasons #80, 81, 82, 83, 85. Gawd, those pesky libertarian-leaning anarchists running amok in NH! Clearly they support children starving, gun fights in the streets, poverty for all, and medicine for none.



    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  24. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #24
    We're working in theory, because that's kind of as far as modern American "libertarian" politics really extends, right?

    My list is an unordered grouping of problems that have been addressed by government. We can see these problems around the world today, and in instances throughout history, and how they have been solved by government. It's easy to forget, perhaps, that we have the government we have today because our forefathers saw it as the path to the extremely high standard of living now enjoyed in the western world. The market economy paved the way, but only with the protection of regulation.

    Failed states provide an interesting view of the potential issues faced by a government that grows too small to maintain sovereignty. Power is up for grabs, sold to the guy with the biggest guns and/or the backing of a foreign government. There are examples of this all over the world today, and certainly throughout history.

    Privatization of everything possible is suicide, and all but hands power to those with the most money at the start. History and psychology can show us that people do not behave well when they feel too much freedom and no oversight. There also appears to be a human psychological need for authority, so this promotion of freedom at all costs would, paradoxically, be the prime opportunity for dictatorial leaders to gain power. Given the opportunity (liberty?) to behave as they please, people will swiftly start to ignore the liberty of others. If you don't believe that, open a history book and look around you at the world today.
     
  25. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #25
    No one wants to get rid of taxes, they want to get rid of inefficiencies in government spending which are causing them to be taxed. Case in point: Toronto spends thousands on light systems to warn cars on cross walks, yet for some reason they deem it necessary to hire a crosswalk guard to blow a whistle and hold a stop sign all day. Waste of my money.
     

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