White House Forged Letter to Start Iraq War?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cleverboy, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Location:
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    #1
    I have to admit, this is inline with everything I'd heard about Bush's mentality.
    http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2008/08/05/cafferty.file.tuesday.cnn
    http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/08/05/book-white-house-forged-letter-to-start-iraq-war/

    Gentlemen... DO WE HAVE A WINNER?

    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/white_house_forged_iraqi_lette.html
    Come on... someone give us a smoking gun. PLEASE??? I think we just got word that the White House can't protect aids from subpoenas. So... that's certainly a step in the right direction.

    ~ CB
     
  2. ghall macrumors 68040

    ghall

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    #2
    And why am I not surprised? Well I really don't know what to say, that's pretty messed up.
     
  3. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    #3
    well Ron was on many NPR program today. I suppose its possible, on one hand I want to see more evidence, on the other hand, I know there probably won't be any available....
     
  4. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    If true, it would be just another example of black propaganda that is used by all of the worlds intelligence agencies.
     
  5. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    Denver
    #5
    You know, if we can't or won't nail anyone in the White House for any of the other impeachable offenses we've already found out about I don't see how this will turn any tables.

    Bush, Cheney, et al. will die comfortable, rich and happy.
     
  6. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    Terminus
    #6
    I actually created that letter.


    That's an explosive allegation too, I just don't have any proof of it so it doesn't mean anything. Anybody can make anything up, and they often do.
     
  7. Killyp macrumors 68040

    Killyp

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    #7
    Not 100% sure about that. Sure it's easily fabricated, but at the same time this was the Telegraph, which may not exactly be The Times, but then again it's not The Sun, so it's at least relatively reliable.
     
  8. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #8
    Weapons of mass destruction.
     
  9. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    Terminus
    #9
    Yes, but making this a news story and thus a further indictment on the Bush administration is irresponsible unless it is actually verified, rather than someone just saying it is so. And until it is verifiable, you should find it about as reputable as a story in the National Enquirer.
     
  10. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Location Location Location
    #10
    I don't know how Bush and Dick have survived this long without being impeached. It's a miracle those terrorists aren't in jail, really.
     
  11. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #11
    If true, this means Bush & Co. are even lower than I thought...and that's saying something.

    However, right now this is one guy's claim. I'd want to see some kind of evidence. If not the actual document, then at least two or three WH officials who say that it was indeed real.
     
  12. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    #12
    If only they had an intern .... :p :D
     
  13. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #13
    Cleverboy, his book is not based on conjecture. It is also not based on 'anonymous' sources. He has direct quotes from the CIA and State Department underlings, and mid-level individuals, actually involved with what he is reporting. A good way to tell whether the veracity of what he is saying is true, is how the side opposite refutes what he says. If they focus on discrediting him with personal attacks, and name calling, rather than countering his claims with their own information, you can bet they are arguing from a weak position. If the right-wing 'talking heads' begin a character assignation campaign, you can also bet he is reporting the facts. This actually falls right in line with what Knight-Ridder's investigative reporters, Jonathan Landay and Warren Strobel were reporting, beginning in 2002.

    This story has been there all along. Many people knew and told parts of it. I was just waiting for someone credible to come along and assemble it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a vast number of similar revelations, waiting to come forward.
     
  14. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #14
    It really doesn't matter if there was a letter or not. It'd just be another feather in the anti-war cap. There are so many Feathers in there already that it will just get lost amongst the others.

    The was a war that was based on lies and has killed over a million people. It's a war that's cost trillions of dollars and it's a war that has just made the thread of extremism worse.
     
  15. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #15
    és, I do see one important reason for bringing this story forward, even though I have shared the same thoughts as you, about its relative importance to all of the evidence already proven. This is more enticing story to the MSM. It is the type of story, which has all of the conspiracy drama, which can make them look like crack (not the drug) investigators, who are 'breaking' the information, even though the vast majority of the story work has been already been done by others. It also has many other appealing attributes. The 'source', at the bottom of the information 'food chain', is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist. There is forgery and it goes to the highest levels. The seriousness of the crimes warrants impeachment of an unpopular sitting President. There is plenty of conspiracy guilt to share with others at the very top of the administration's power food chain - lots of room for additional speculation. Most importantly, all of this can be done without fear of getting 'out on a limb' and too far 'ahead of the curve'.

    Many of us have been waiting for the MSM to start taking an interest in this information, which the foreign press, and the progressive blogosphere have known, and written about for years. So, to my mind, anything which may finally light a fire under their ass is good.
     
  16. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #16
    I do accept, and am grateful for, the point you've made. I guess that I just feel that the case is so clear for a trial for war crimes, which to me supersedes this, that it wasn't all that relevant, but you're right; the more evidence the greater the fire.
     
  17. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Location:
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    #17
    Say what you will. I don't think "war crimes" have much chance to rise to the Presidency. I think Rumsfeld has far more to be worried over than Bush ever will on any charge of "war crimes". Also, unfortunately, criminal negligence is also something that may get us heated, but has a way of becoming a relativistic argument.

    FORGING A LETTER in order to bolster the case for war, is an extremely damning line of accusation in my book, if it can be clearly proven through documented evidence. Reading "The Assault on Reason", Gore made many of the same, "F-it we're going in." anecdotes regarding Bush. A forged letter however, if material, gives me hope of a far more compelling and winnable case (whether for impeachment or conviction).

    I don't think enough people give enough credit to how badly a LOSS strikes a blow to credibility, if you're case against something cannot ultimately be made (or begins to take on water). With Nixon, there was clearly something to be said with evidence that puts the accused enflagrante delicto. When I say "smoking gun", I don't mean "the smell of a gun" or "the impression of the gun on the bed, and a degree of warmth implying it had been fired". I mean the corpus. The body. The material thing that LINKS and DAMNS.

    I'm skeptical of all else when it comes to risk of failure.

    That's certainly a good way to ferret out areas where more investigation should be focused. Truth/... reality... based exclusively on hearsay, can be fleeting.

    Let's hope they're more than mere allegation or revelation. We've been having a damnable time using subpoenas on the Bush administration/campaign.



    ~ CB
     
  18. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #18
    In the highly likely event that this allegation is true, can it in some way be linked the odious twat, Mr. Anthony Blair, so that we can charge him with treason?
     
  19. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #19
    That sir, is really reaching. You are completely taking an absurd extreme example, and attempting to associate it with a book, which is highly researched.

    I am sure Bush would be gratified to know, he still has chauvinistic followers left. Especially in light of all of the contrary facts, which have already been verified, and known to be true. Like és said, "It really doesn't matter if there was a letter or not. It'd just be another feather in the anti-war cap. There are so many Feathers in there already that it will just get lost amongst the others." As it turns out, this forged letter has been known of for a long time. It is only now hitting the MSM, because a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist has published a book, which includes this story. I also think you are spending too much time watching FOX. You are accusing Ron Suskind of having insufficient proof for his assertions. Yet, you have no basis for making that claim.
     
  20. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #20
    The mills of Bush grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly dumb.
     
  21. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #21
    I think he has proven that evolution does not always mean change for the better. :D
     
  22. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
  23. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #23
    It isn't just this they're ignoring. I posted a few YouTube links of a Senate Sub Committee hearing on something similar, and barely saw anything in the MSM about it, even though you'd think it would be huge news. The Downing Street memo and everything PNAC was putting out before 9/11 (before Bush actually) were practically ignored as well. At this point though, we all know they suck. It just isn't news anymore. With the opposition not really opposing, and posturing committee hearings that go nowhere, I think the media is just waiting for Bush to be gone already, because the people certainly are.

    It's dismaying that we've given up in the face of such atrocities, but they will be getting away with it, with history being their only true judge (which IMO is not good enough, but it's all we got).

    I believe andy is just playing Devil's Advocate, as he's not real happy with Bush or McCain either. And no one likes most of the rest of that administration (Cheney, Rummie, etc). But you are right. This is just more evidence of what we already know, and he has plenty of reliable sources to back him up. If nothing else, better than Bush's sources for going in to the war that we already know were trumped up, but I guess that isn't saying much.
     
  24. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #24
    I am sure the media would like nothing better than to just walk away clean, after being willing partners in the deception perpetuated against the US, and its citizens (their countrymen).

    Your seconds paragraph will probably turn out to be true. Yet, I am going to hope, against all hope, justice will eventually be served.

    If Andy is playing devil's advocate, he has the role down to a science. I do not know the man, and my history here only goes back a couple years. But, just going by what he posts, he does not seem to be knowledgeable about the numerous stories, about these subjects, and already validated by many sources.
     
  25. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #25
    I agree with much of what you said in the rest of your post, most of which doesn't contradict anything that I've said.

    I don't really agree with the quoted part. Unless, of course, we only put presidents we don't like on trial, like Milosovic and Karodzic? On second thoughts, it's probably for the best if you don't answer that, you might just be right.
     

Share This Page