White people and the Democratic Party.

Herdfan

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I have always said the Democratic party as it is made up is more fragile than the GOP. The GOP has 3 basic coalitions: Christian Right, Fiscal Conservatives and Small Government Tea Partiers. Identity in these groups can also easily overlap meaning you can be both Christian Right and a Fiscal Conservative. These groups really have no where else to go except may be a few on the fringes will identify as Libertarian.

But with the Dems, they have a whole lot more smaller coalitions: Minorities, LBGT, Enviros, Jews, Muslims, younger americans (under 35) and Union and working class Americans. That is a whole lot of factions to try and keep happy. In 2016, they lost (some would say ignored) the union members and working class Americans in the rust belt and as a result we have President Trump.

Now there is a whole lot of coverage of "White Privilege" and how it is ruining the country. Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".

How is this going to play in the next election. They just lost an election because they ignored part of their base and now they seem to be going out of their way to denigrate another large portion of their base by being critical of being "white". I see how that may play well in minority communities, but many of the other factions are still made up of "white" people.

Do they not realize what they are doing?
 
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aaronvan

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I have always said the Democratic party as it is made up is more fragile than the GOP. The GOP has 3 basic coalitions: Christian Right, Fiscal Conservatives and Small Government Tea Partiers.
Note that those three coalitions are all interventionist neocon globalists.

The GOP will hate living under the Trump administration. Trump is going to grow government, he is going to spend trillions rebuilding America, and he couldn't give a damn about Bible-waving "family values" asshats. However, the Republicans will kowtow and get in line because they are all sniveling weak political careerists just like the Democrats.

Welcome to the Revolution.
 

oneMadRssn

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Sep 8, 2011
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The GOP has 3 basic coalitions: Christian Right, Fiscal Conservatives and Small Government Tea Partiers. ... But with the Dems, they have a whole lot more smaller coalitions: Minorities, LBGT, Enviros, Jews, Muslims, younger americans (under 35) and Union and working class Americans. That is a whole lot of factions to try and keep happy. In 2016, they lost (some would say ignored) the union members and working class Americans in the rust belt and as a result we have President Trump.

Now there is a whole lot of coverage of "White Privilege" and how it is ruining the country. Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".
First, nobody is condemning being white. The condemnation is for not recognizing/acknowledging implicit biases and advantages. Some people think they are successful because they followed a plan, worked hard, and made their own success, and nothing else contributed to their success. They refuse to accept the fact that at least 50% of their success is owed to pure luck.

For example: I am successful, and I worked hard. But I recognize that certain things completely outside of my control occurred along the way which certainly helped me out. Being white helped me. Having educated parents helped me. Those two things introduced me to people that may have not otherwise talked to me. Those people got me the connections I needed to succeed (oversimplifying a lot). In general, I say my success comes from 50% hard work and 50% luck. Being white isn't a bad thing, but being white and not recognizing that advantages it brings is being ignorant.

Second, you break up the Dems coalitions into very fine groups that overlap. For example, one can be a young environmentalist immigrant gay jewish member of a union. I can just as easily say the GOP has a whole lot of smaller coalitions: the white supremacists (alt-right), the christian conservatives, the mormon conservatives, the business elites, the country-club conservatives, the truck drivers, the small government folks, the no taxes forks, and the texans.

Really, I think trying to divide up the party in this way is a baseless and useless exercise. The main difference to me is this:

DNC believes in evidence-based governing and politics.
GOP believes in eminence-based governing and politics.
 

VulchR

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Jun 8, 2009
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Note that those three coalitions are all interventionist neocon globalists.

The GOP will hate living under the Trump administration. Trump is going to grow government, he is going to spend trillions rebuilding America, and he couldn't give a damn about Bible-waving "family values" asshats. However, the Republicans will kowtow and get in line because they are all sniveling weak political careerists just like the Democrats.

Welcome to the Revolution.

Good god - we agree on something. :eek:
 
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Populism

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Jun 11, 2014
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Welcome to the Revolution.
Completely unrelated, but I heard a cool song for the first time while watching The Night Of several months ago. The use of Chicago's riff works better than the original Chicago song.

Anyway, I propose this be the official soundtrack song for the Revolution.

 

Snoopy4

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Dec 29, 2014
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I have always said the Democratic party as it is made up is more fragile than the GOP. The GOP has 3 basic coalitions: Christian Right, Fiscal Conservatives and Small Government Tea Partiers. Identity in these groups can also easily overlap meaning you can be both Christian Right and a Fiscal Conservative. These groups really have no where else to go except may be a few on the fringes will identify as Libertarian.

But with the Dems, they have a whole lot more smaller coalitions: Minorities, LBGT, Enviros, Jews, Muslims, younger americans (under 35) and Union and working class Americans. That is a whole lot of factions to try and keep happy. In 2016, they lost (some would say ignored) the union members and working class Americans in the rust belt and as a result we have President Trump.

Now there is a whole lot of coverage of "White Privilege" and how it is ruining the country. Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".

How is this going to play in the next election. They just lost an election because they ignored part of their base and now they seem to be going out of their way to denigrate another large portion of their base by being critical of being "white". I see how that may play well in minority communities, but many of the other factions are still made up of "white" people.

Do they not realize what they are doing?
They keep trashing Israel they'll lose one of those groups in a hurry. Unions may have already fallen and are headed toward a slow death. Dems have gone off the deep end with their nonsense.
 
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Zenithal

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Sep 10, 2009
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Jews are typically conservative and don't vote Democrat. Those who are liberal and don't follow the whimsical mantra of Israel's knesset will vote Democrat.

and he couldn't give a damn about Bible-waving "family values" asshats.
You make me laugh. Not laughing at you, of course, because you said something clever for once. I could never understand what evangelicals or even bible thumpers saw in Trump. Third marriage and all. The way he treats women and others. Granted, Evangelicals are as nutty as the rest of the severely religious people in this country, but I always found it amusing how they supported Trump.
 

Herdfan

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Original poster
Apr 11, 2011
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Jews are typically conservative and don't vote Democrat. Those who are liberal and don't follow the whimsical mantra of Israel's knesset will vote Democrat.
The ones in S. Florida do. Think Palm Beach County.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,501
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Melbourne, Australia
I have always said the Democratic party as it is made up is more fragile than the GOP. The GOP has 3 basic coalitions: Christian Right, Fiscal Conservatives and Small Government Tea Partiers. Identity in these groups can also easily overlap meaning you can be both Christian Right and a Fiscal Conservative. These groups really have no where else to go except may be a few on the fringes will identify as Libertarian.

But with the Dems, they have a whole lot more smaller coalitions: Minorities, LBGT, Enviros, Jews, Muslims, younger americans (under 35) and Union and working class Americans. That is a whole lot of factions to try and keep happy. In 2016, they lost (some would say ignored) the union members and working class Americans in the rust belt and as a result we have President Trump.

Now there is a whole lot of coverage of "White Privilege" and how it is ruining the country. Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".

How is this going to play in the next election. They just lost an election because they ignored part of their base and now they seem to be going out of their way to denigrate another large portion of their base by being critical of being "white". I see how that may play well in minority communities, but many of the other factions are still made up of "white" people.

Do they not realize what they are doing?
They don't like whites because whites, and in particular white men, are critical of big government to a higher degree than other groups.
 
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Mac'nCheese

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What’s up with white people and the democrats? Black people vote for democrats like this: oh yeah I’m voting for the white boy. But white people vote for democrats like this: oh my I sure am doing my civic duty by casting a vote today.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
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Actually this is a good topic. A large portion of blacks are fed up with the Dem party. Blacks don't want any part of the Dems or Reps. If Bernie is to run next election as an independent, there's a good chance he will get the majority of the black vote.
 

mac_in_tosh

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Nov 6, 2016
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But with the Dems, they have a whole lot more smaller coalitions: Minorities, LBGT, Enviros, Jews, Muslims, younger americans (under 35) and Union and working class Americans. That is a whole lot of factions to try and keep happy. In 2016, they lost (some would say ignored) the union members and working class Americans in the rust belt and as a result we have President Trump.
Some of these coalitions are not at all small. And I don't think they so much ignored working class Americans as those people succumbed to Trump's very negative campaign. Also, let's not forget that the Democratic candidate did receive 3 million more votes than Trump so the message couldn't have been that bad. Plus Russian interference.;)

Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".
Don't you think that's a wee bit of a generalization?

And as much as I like Bernie, he needs to sit out the next election. He can't win and he only will weaken the eventual Democratic candidate, as he did Hillary.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Oct 27, 2009
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And as much as I like Bernie, he needs to sit out the next election. He can't win and he only will weaken the eventual Democratic candidate, as he did Hillary.
I disagree, but Bernie did make a huge mistake endorsing Hillary. I wonder how much forgiveness he will get on that one, if he decides to run again.
 

0007776

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Now there is a whole lot of coverage of "White Privilege" and how it is ruining the country. Dems are all over TV condemning being "white".

How is this going to play in the next election. They just lost an election because they ignored part of their base and now they seem to be going out of their way to denigrate another large portion of their base by being critical of being "white". I see how that may play well in minority communities, but many of the other factions are still made up of "white" people.

Do they not realize what they are doing?
I think they are counting on the GOP remaining the party of Trump. I think he is enough of a liability that the Dems have a chance in 2020, although I think even then they have a good chance of taking the House in 2018, and then squandering their opportunity by focusing on social issues like limiting “White privilege” instead of the economy.
 

iapplelove

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Nov 22, 2011
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Both parties, Democrats and Republicans are horrible. I always found it interesting when one party argues that their side is better, or closer to being perfect . It’s never good to lean all the way to one side.

Imo the wisest people are always somewhere in the middle.
 
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CaptMurdock

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Both parties, Democrats and Republicans are horrible. I always found it interesting when one party argues that their side is better, or closer to being perfect . It’s never good to learn all the way to one side.

Imo the wisest people are always somewhere in the middle.
Sorry, not buying it. Chicken pox is less than desirable, but if it's a choice between that and leprosy...

I've never characterized the Democratic Party as perfect, or even close to it. I wouldn't even characterize them as sticking to their supposed core principles 100% of the time. The GOP, on the other hand, seem to have aligned themselves with the corrupt, the ill-informed (if not the completely cognitively-dissonant) and the borderline sociopathic, with no course correction in sight.

I'll take Chicken Pox for $100, Alex.
 

GermanSuplex

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Aug 26, 2009
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I used to be conservative until I wasn't. I considered voting for Romney because I do think he would have ran a fiscally responsible office on many fronts, and I think he had an ability to reach across the aisle. But the GOP today has no room for moderates like a Romney these days, hence they vote a guy who isn't even a conservative at all, just a conman who throws phrases and thinly-veiled racist/anti-religious rhetoric.

The "democrats" may have some philosophical differences to where a Bernie-esque figure could possibly win in the future, but by and large I think they have a unity that the GOP doesn't have, which is a more "fall in line" deal. There's no other way to explain why they allow things Trump is doing to continue, a true embarrassment to this country.
 

A.Goldberg

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Jan 31, 2015
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Jews are typically conservative and don't vote Democrat. Those who are liberal and don't follow the whimsical mantra of Israel's knesset will vote Democrat
Jews historically vote democrat. I think the number is somewhere around 70% Democrat. Pretty much the only solid predictor of Jews voting republican is the orthodox community, as their values largely align with the evangelical Christians.
 

0007776

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I used to be conservative until I wasn't. I considered voting for Romney because I do think he would have ran a fiscally responsible office on many fronts, and I think he had an ability to reach across the aisle. But the GOP today has no room for moderates like a Romney these days, hence they vote a guy who isn't even a conservative at all, just a conman who throws phrases and thinly-veiled racist/anti-religious rhetoric.

The "democrats" may have some philosophical differences to where a Bernie-esque figure could possibly win in the future, but by and large I think they have a unity that the GOP doesn't have, which is a more "fall in line" deal. There's no other way to explain why they allow things Trump is doing to continue, a true embarrassment to this country.
The Democrats are heading the same way and have little room for moderates. And I’d be willing to bet they will continue to go further that way rather than come back to the Center.
 

GermanSuplex

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The Democrats are heading the same way and have little room for moderates. And I’d be willing to bet they will continue to go further that way rather than come back to the Center.
I think the right and left have very different ideas on what "moderate" means, where you stand I don't know.
 

Zenithal

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Sep 10, 2009
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Jews historically vote democrat. I think the number is somewhere around 70% Democrat. Pretty much the only solid predictor of Jews voting republican is the orthodox community, as their values largely align with the evangelical Christians.
Historically, yes. In the last 10-15 years, it's been who's more pro-Israel. Which I can't blame anyone for with the issues she faces. Funny you quoting me. I was reading up on figures and changes a week ago. I can understand Orthodox Jews but it gets confusing, albeit on this coast where a lot prefer not to conform to any denomination. Whereas it's a different story on the east coast. It gets very confusing when you break it down to general liberal and conservative bias outside of Orthodox, and then weigh the reasons why these last two candidates performed well with Jews. I've read both pulled the most, but the numbers are fuzzy when you look at how the data was gathered.

In brief, a lot of norms were thrown out this last election cycle. Those who were die hard liberals may have strayed from Clinton and lifelong Republicans denounced Trump and didn't vote for him. Typical Democrat voting Jews may have found themselves leaning towards Trump due to his stronger stance on helping Israel. HRC is a staunch supporter of Israel, but historically she's said and done things that would make the Israeli leadership question her and possibly Jewish voters. I don't recall Trump once criticizing the state and its plans on expanding and increasing its power in the sand pit.


That "in brief" wasn't so brief, but you get the pictures. You also have to consider people who went against party lines because of Trump's hard stance on all immigration, including the restriction of visas. Even the palest of pale people from Western Europe are finding it harder to visit the US. The tougher restrictions on corporate visas is what got chunks of Bay Area techies to vote Republican over Democrat.

Like I said a week or two ago. After a certain amount of income, the policies of the Trump Administration don't have much effect. You may pay a higher insurance premium, but the majority of the policies go against the working class. And, whether it's a D or an R in office, being not of color helps anyone.

As for Bibi, he's a classier Trump. I feel the people of Israel need a better, more truthful, and hardworking leader other than their corrupt Bibi, other people high in government, those in the Knesset and local leaders. Granted, Israel is far ahead of former Bloc countries.
 
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Eraserhead

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The Democrats are heading the same way and have little room for moderates. And I’d be willing to bet they will continue to go further that way rather than come back to the Center.
The thing is more left wing candidates enthuse the base which is important too.

Frankly the Republicans are going to find moving beyond Trump hard when they excuse his every action.
 
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