Who is the Most Effective Political Party?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    The Republicans without doubt. Right now they are kicking the ***** out of the Dems. I'm impressed with the Republicans' zeal and in contrast the Democrats ineptitudes. What is the problem? Is it the Democrats fears they are about to be voted out of office?

    What is most amazing is the Republicans demand after the midterms that Democrats follow the will of the people, in essence give in to Republican demands, but just a short two years ago after a voter mandate to elect Obama, they (Republicans) said screw the voter mandate, we want what we want and we are not giving up. You have to admire their tenacity while disparing about the future of this country and the middle class. It's gut wrenching.
     
  2. yamabushi macrumors 65816

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    #2
    I agree. The Republicans usually play the game better. They control their message in the media better and tend to be more unified than the Democrats. Not sure why the Democrats suck so bad compared to the Republicans on message. Perhaps it is because Republicans tend to use more emotional arguments while Democrats tend to use more intellectual arguments. Both parties use both tactics but seem to focus more often on their preferred tactic. Neither party really has a monopoly on logic or truth. It is more about keeping to party bullet points and spin on issues.
     
  3. rdowns macrumors Penryn

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  4. Huntn, Dec 19, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    I'm serious but it is inverse admiration of a dark despairing nature. I'm not focusing on "the good" they have done (which I consider very little), but on their ability to get their goals accomplished. I don't know if you've ever experienced this but it's like being at a ball game and watching the other team walks all over your team. At some level you have to admit, they can get it done.

    Organized and pushing forward to achieve their goals, whether you agree with their goals or not.
     
  5. Biff..., Dec 19, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010

    Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #6

    As much as I hate to say this, the democrats are the most effective. Taking into account the last two years and the type and scope of legislation that was passed. On health care alone the democrats had some balls.

    On taxes look at the deal the potus got from the republicans, he convinced them to give in to additional spending in exchange for keeping current tax rates the same, pretty good deal for him and sets him up for 2012.
     
  6. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    If you limit effective to achieving good things that benefit average citizens than the Dems win hands down. :)
     
  7. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #8

    What was so "Democratic" about the health care bill passed?
     
  8. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #9

    Nothing really, but it was passed
     
  9. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #10
    By the very nature of what each party represents, it's a one-sided game.

    The Republicans play the game to win - and good for them! The Democrats show up, refuse to play and instead act as referee.

    There is no opposition.
     
  10. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    It's been this way for a while. Republicans tend to walk in (goose)step, while getting Democrats to vote the same way is like herding cats.

    The Dems have too many closet Republicans within their ranks. Look at all the blue dogs who've been undermining the Democratic leadership. These are people who for all intents and purposes are conservatives. The only reason they are technically Democrats is because they look at their Republican colleagues across the aisle and think, "Okay, I'm not that crazy."

    The solution, of course, is to elect more true Democrats, but with crap like FPC (Fox Propaganda Channel), it's getting harder and harder to get voters to elect any sensible candidate, much less a liberal.

    Trust me...the Republicans know what they're doin'.
     
  11. 63dot, Dec 19, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010

    63dot macrumors 603

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    #12
    I think the Democrats simply don't care and that's why they are not effective. The Supreme Court rules slightly to the left, regardless of the Judge and their personal political position, the Dems still have the Senate, and they have the White House. The Democrats are apathetic and not fired up like 2006 and 2008 when they first put Pelosi up and then Obama. After those huge victories, then it was business as usual.

    And the GOP is setting themselves up for a world of hurt, like they did in Senate races in Nevada, Delaware, and Alaska, if they try and run Palin or Rand Paul for president in 2012.

    The GOP is not as big a threat as some people may assume and are only a tiny bit more effective than the Democrats. A lot of the vote in the House was a protest against the poor economy. What will be the case for the GOP if the economy is still weak in 2012 with a Republican House? The GOP would have more leverage had the Democrats retained control of everything and the economy is bad on election day, 2012.

    The one place where I think the GOP was very effective was in how they stole the Tea Party away from the Libertarians and turned it into a GOP funded and controlled event. Where the message of the early Tea Party was just as much against the two wars and the war machine Bush had built as much as it was against Obama spending tax monies (and keeping the wars going) as well as the big bailouts, everything Tea Party shifted as only anti-Obama. That's the GOP influence. The early Tea Party express had left Libertarians and Greens protesting the war in general, but left when it became a personal attack on the Democrats and had the fingerprints of a GOP takeover all over it. What the heck was with Armey and Gingrich playing nice with the Tea Party? That's when I knew a third voice, neither right or left, was a dead issue this time.

    The Reform party was an earlier attempt to bring in a non-two party voice but the GOP effectively neutered them also.

    Before that, the Greens had some momentum, but then the Democrats shamed many liberals out of the Green party and blamed the 2000 debacle on Nader. Post-2000 was an example of an effective Democratic party hit on a competitor.
     
  12. mrkramer macrumors 603

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    #13
    Really? The Dems managed to pass the Republican health care plan, they kept the Bush tax cuts like the Republicans wanted. The only thing the Dems have accomplished is getting rid of DADT, but even that took way too long.
     
  13. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #14
    lets see economy still in the crapper.

    Promise of Hope and change has been clearly broken (same crap new face)

    Economy is in the crapper.

    Jobs not improving and have only been getting worse the past 2 years. Minus a few spots here and there we have not been even breaking even.

    It is kind of what you expect when things are not getting better.
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

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    #15

    Aside of jobs, which is always a lagging indicator, the economy has been growing for five quarters now. Sadly, it's not growing fast enough.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. 63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #16
    Thanks for the graph. In real terms, the slow growth pretty much makes it feel like we are still in a recession or depression. I hope next year will see some growth we can actually experience and those growth numbers are certainly not fast enough like you point out.
     
  16. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #17
    So basicly the people at the top are getting richer.

    We have 5 months of growth and jobs still are not even going up to the break even point so that means the number of unemployed is growing each month.
    Nov had horrible job numbers. Much worse that expected.

    The only number that matters to me is jobs. All the other things are complete worthless. Tell the people who have been unemployed for over a year and they will tell you that things are still crap. Jobs are not being created.

    I love how they try to spin things to be good but less face it the numbers are beyond pathetic.
    Also note anything under 3% means things are getting worse. They do not adjust for inflation and inflation is around 3%
     
  17. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #18

    Don't forget the unemployment rate wont go pass 8% promise. How about those shovel ready jobs, opps there is no such thing as a shovel ready job.
     
  18. fivepoint macrumors 65816

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    #19
    The Democratic party is FAR more successful. Even though this is a VERY conservative leaning country, they are still in power 50% of the time. In addition, since the New Deal they've successfully able to turn America into a welfare state with hints of socialism everywhere and to turn the Republican party into essentially liberal-lite. The Dems want to massively increase the size of government, the neo-con Republicans just don't want to increase it quite so quickly/aggressively... except for the military. A very sad state of affairs, progressivism has definitely been the trend of the U.S. in the last 80 years.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #20
    This will be our downfall.
     
  20. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Apt observation.

    I like the hearding cat analogy better. ;)

    This statement shows how skewed your view are. Since the 1960's the Republican Party took a hard right, so far right that Ronald Reagan, their hero would be drummed out of the party today.
     
  21. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #22
    Last I heard it was a Dem health care plan, and the current tax rates were kept at the expense of close to a TRILLION DOLLARS in spending, which is money we don't have. So I would say the republicans got the shaft on this deal.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #23
    The Chinese had a bunch of shovel ready jobs, so its definitely possible...
     
  23. fivepoint macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I realize you don't spend any time reading history, but please stop pretending to know anything about it or how today's political structure compares to historical political structures in the U.S. The acceptance of big government in BOTH political parties is VASTLY more expansive than it was 100 years ago, 200 years ago, etc. Even the the most relatively statist authors of the federalist papers would be WAY too conservative/small-government to be a modern Republican.
     
  24. 63dot macrumors 603

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    #25
    I don't think anything is really wrong about his/her history, but I agree with you about the big government thing.

    When I was a hard core Democrat, my good Republican friend (a military person) said the GOP was just as big spending of our tax money as the Democrats and didn't ever attack the Democrats on spending. He saw both parties as spending and wasting money on pet projects, and the GOP had DoD and the military.

    He had seen in his nearly 20 years as a naval officer just how duplicitous in inefficient the military was and how incapable the Reagan and Bush administrations were in building a good military. He saw more interest in the GOP just throwing money at the military to make them big (but not better) and by default, we would be the biggest, but no more efficient than when Carter was commander in chief.

    Our founding fathers are not a good example because nobody can see 200 years into the future. The Federalists and anti-Federalists who made up our nation's founding fathers were forward looking, but I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to navigate in today's two party, big money system, would you?

    There's just too much we don't know about in the mechanics of the game, and like them or not, Pelosi and Boehner, are masters of the game to have reached their pinnacles in the House. Those two, and other Speakers before them, have to have thick skin in order to sleep at night, and I don't think government waste is something that's high on their list. A Libertarian would have a heart attack if they became Speaker. ;)
     

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