Why are governments still rolling out money for native americans?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Zombie Acorn, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #1
    A recent news story about Harper not dumping more money in Attawapiskat has brought this issue to my attention. When the government has already spent 90 million for a population of 2100 people who decide to live in a desolate area with no jobs it seems pretty ridiculous for the government to even send 90 million. They are being attacked for auditing these funds which have been squandered as people still live in poverty. These people can move to an area like everyone else, find a job, get an education, whatever. Why do governments bend over backwards for these people? Im pretty sure reparations have been long paid, time for native americans to get off their ass and do something. If you want to live in a remote area with no jobs then you better be able to be self sufficient.

    First response with "This was their land" can get a downrating. If we went by that rule the reparations would be an endless cycle going back to the start of man.
     
  2. likemyorbs, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011

    likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #2
    I agree. Reparations for native americans should end. They also have major issues with alcoholism on reserves and run crooked businesses all over the place. Funny part is natives got reparations but blacks never did. It's been like two centuries. Get over it.
     
  3. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #3
    Not so fast. This goes to our current Social Safety Net system. Living there is all they have known. You try it for a while.

    Perhaps not in this case, but Natives also help prove Sovereignty, in the North.

    And let's look at how the Council Chiefs live, the ones getting the $90M over the last 5 years, before we get out the jack-boots.
     
  4. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #4
    Sure they do. It's called Affirmative Action.
     
  5. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #5
    That's different. There was a time when affirmative action was needed because it was next to impossible for them to get jobs because of blatant discrimination, especially down south. I personally don't believe it's needed anymore, but it will take a while to get rid of it. Native americans on the other hand get all their living expenses paid and get to live a tax free life in the US, the ones who choose to live on reservations are a huge burden on this country. And i'm so sick of them being allowed to run businesses and not pay taxes. I keep seeing commercials for companies than loan money at ridiculous interest rates, and at the bottom of the screen it says "100% native american owned and operated business". Makes me sick. And another time, i was watching the Maury show, and there was an out of control teenager who was half native and wanted to have a baby, and maury asked her "how do you plan on supporting this baby?", and she said "my dad is native american and i get money from the government every month". Made my blood boil.
     
  6. ComputersaysNo macrumors 6502

    ComputersaysNo

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    #6
    Once the natives are gone, we can drill for oil there!


    ...wait
     
  7. Grey Beard macrumors 65816

    Grey Beard

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    #7
    I wonder if various posters are at opposing view points. Is the topic relating to the Northern Inuit as in Canada or as others are implying the Native American Indian as in the USA?
    KGB:confused:
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    In an apparent effort to be all-inclusive, I believe the OP has done this thread a dis-service.

    Each country has their own problems, their own history, and methods of handling the 'problem'.

    But, I doubt that Native Americans are paying reparations to other tribes, that they have conquered over the millenniums.
     
  9. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #9
    You should see the crap done with WMB (woman and Minority own bussiness) for contracts.
    Multiple companies I know of have a Woman as the "owner" of the company. "owner" in name only. She does nothing with contracts or business. Her husband runs the company and makes all the calls but to get boost in government contracts she is the "owner". Hell some of them she never even goes into the office and she has her own career.

    It completely pathetic the abuse I see in what should of been a good law or boost.

    Hell I have seen sometime the minority own company get a contract for the MWB reasons and they are by far one of the worse choices to go with but they get given contracts because there are no other MWB in the area and the Contractor needs to up there MWB %. They steal jobs from legit companies. On top of that if they know a job is has MWB issues they just put in a really hi bid knowing the GC has no choice but to go with them.
     
  10. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #10
    Affirmative Action, for whatever reason, will be abused.

    It's the nature of the beast.

    Artificially levelling the playing field never works as intended.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
    I don't make a distinction between northern and southern natives. They are both in about the same space. Leaching and squandering off their respective governments.
     
  12. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #12
    gosh! you make them sound like the banks or oil companies or something
     
  13. coochiekuta macrumors 6502

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    #13
    it must suck to have to wonder if you has been given a position based on merit or based on charity.
     
  14. Vudoo macrumors 6502a

    Vudoo

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    #14
    The relationship with the Canadian government and the First Nations is quite different than the one with the US and the Native Americans.
     
  15. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #15
    I've lived in both countries and the situation is more similar than different. The government teet is extended a bit further up here, but the natives are given great advantage over tax payers and squander it with hands reaching out for more.
     
  16. Daffodil macrumors 6502

    Daffodil

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    #16
    True, although the predictable counterpoint to that is that if positions were based on merit alone, the underprivileged would need even longer to catch up due to years (centuries?) of discrimination.

    (I don't mean that as unconditional support of "affirmative action" or anything... More like the continued need for support of the socioeconomically disadvantaged with respect to education, perhaps?)
     
  17. Vudoo macrumors 6502a

    Vudoo

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    #17
    I have family in Toronto and my in-laws live on Vancouver Island. I see the influence of First Nations more on the west coast than the east. I actually have a friend who is First Nation and he doesn't live on the reserve. He has a job and raises his family like everyone else. I agree that it may be time to cut back on a few things, but at the same time it's eye opening on what damage that the Europeans did.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn thread starter macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    It may seem that he raises his kid/goes about life like everyone else but if he went.to college he probably had a good.amount of it taken care of. Isn't paying hst if he has status and is likely getting other tax exemptions for no other good reason.
     
  19. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #19
    The "this is their land" argument always bugged me for another reason. If they want to live as a separate nation under their own rules, fine. But why would we then give them money to do so? If they want to be their own nation, then take care of yourself.
     
  20. likemyorbs, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011

    likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #20
    White guilt? Idk. Unfortunately, i've never heard this issue brought up by any politician in my 22 years. I've always accepted it as just a part of life. I will be pleasantly surprised when the issue comes to light. To be completely honest with you, i've never met a native american in my entire life. it's just one of those swept under the rug type things.

    ----------

    No one denies how much damage the europeans did here in the Americas, but it was such a long time ago. It's time for the natives to move on. They lost the battle two centuries ago, this is now the United States and Canada. Time to embrace it and be productive citizens of these countries, instead of whining about the injustices that happened to their ancestors. It's over, it's been over for a VERY long time. Enough is enough.

    EDIT: Another interesting point is that most current americans ancestors did not arrive here on the mayflower. Hell, my family only got here 40 years ago. Why are our tax dollars being wasted on these people? A lot of new people have came here since their land was taken away, and we have nothing to do with it. Why don't they enjoy the benefits of this country the way we do?
     
  21. hulugu, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011

    hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #21
    Federal involvement in native affairs continues to this day, but the greatest damage continued through the 19th and 20th centuries. Dismissing this as something that happened "two centuries ago" is a-historic.

    First, because of the relationship between the federal government under the auspices of the BIA (part of the Interior Department), native people have never really had the kind of self-determiniation that a recent immigrant did.

    Also, keep in mind that the federal government benefits from this relationship, it's not a matter of welfare, but rather dealing with both an ugly history and a troublesome reality. It would help if some of those who are so critical of indian affairs actually visit a reservation.

    The relationship is less asymmetric than you make it out. While federal dollars go to indian lands, the federal government also retains significant control over native affairs, including land management, mineral rights guarantees, etc.

    The total budget for BIA is $2.5 billion, which isn't very much and does actually very little to solve the endemic poverty of nations like the Dine (formerly called the Navajo).
    Additionally, the Dine have been hit by the poor regulation of uranium mines that dot the reservation, leading the nation to have a much higher rate of cancer. Coupled with diabetes, the nation endures serious health complications at a rate higher than normal.

    Of course, people could abandon the reservation (and thousands do), but that doesn't offer many guarantees and requires them to abandon ancestral lands, a culturally-painful thing to do.

    Local corruption remains a serious problem, but to remove federal dollars won't fix this. Nor, will the new booms propelled by gaming.
     
  22. iz2sick, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011

    iz2sick macrumors 6502

    iz2sick

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    #22
    Oh, you guys mean these Native Americans should assimilate into American culture? Go to American schools, get American jobs, perhaps marry American people?

    We are talking about the same people that had their land forcefully taken from them right?

    If someone walked into your house, killed your family members, and then gave you a bedroom to live in, I think you would drink yourself silly too.

    Yes, that was the past, but oh boy what a bleak past that is. That's like telling Blacks to get over the slavery thing. Bet you wouldn't say that.

    By the way, we rub it in their faces with every single Thanksgiving and then shopping on the Friday after. Actually, this year it started on the day of.

    Let's celebrate the day when the first slave was brought over. Or how about Germans celebrate the day the first Jewish person was killed under Hitler's command.

    I'm not exaggerating either. American history books don't exactly tell a truthful story about Thanksgiving.
     
  23. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #23
    No, I'm talking about their great great grand children.
    Maybe i would, but that doesn't give my descendants the right to do the same.

    Sure i would, black people should get over slavery.
    Holocaust survivors are still alive and getting reparations from Germany. Their children however, will not.
     
  24. iz2sick macrumors 6502

    iz2sick

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    #24
    So what you are suggesting is that Native Americans give up their sacred land and culture and to assimilate into American culture.

    Unlike you or me, they had their land taken from them. For you to suggest that they get over the past when America isn't even upfront about the history is highly arrogant.

    It's easy to sit on your high horse and tell someone to get over a horrid past when you aren't a member of the victimized people.

    You guys can negative me all you want, but this mentality is grotesque. You are wanting the little funding they have to be taken away. All the while we have other much larger problems with government spending. You think that chump change actually helps anything?

    They need more than loose change.
     
  25. Daffodil macrumors 6502

    Daffodil

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    #25
    I think at the end there you bring up a pretty interesting point. Can reparations - even (perhaps especially?) deserved ones get in the way of the situation improving?

    If you posit that the "chump change" doesn't change anything in a meaningful way, then what is it, other than sweeping a horrid past under the rug? Isn't a debate about it better, so we (you) could implement changes for the better?

    Or are you of the opinion that our meddling is what got us into the mess in the first place, and we should leave well enough alone and just keep paying the money until they work it out for themselves?

    Just trying to understand how you imagine a solution would come about...
     

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