Why are we still debating vaccines?

AustinIllini

macrumors demi-goddess
Original poster
Oct 20, 2011
10,845
7,452
Austin, TX
This is a spin on Wild-Bill's thread about climate change.

In case you missed it:

Cavallari: She and Cutler not vaccinating their kids

By Julie Deardorff
Tribune reporter
1:06 p.m. CDT, March 14, 2014

Leaping into the controversial fray over whether vaccines are linked to autism, Kristin Cavallari acknowledged Thursday that she and husband Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler decided not to vaccinate their children.

When directly asked whether she was opposed to vaccines during an appearance on the Fox News program The Independents, Cavallari said, “we don’t vaccinate.” The reason? “I’ve read too many books about autism and the studies,” she said.

It’s not clear what studies she was referring to. The supposed association between childhood shots and autism has been largely debunked by scientific studies and books citing peer-reviewed research.

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Most pediatricians strongly advocate vaccines because they’ve saved lives. A cluster of unvaccinated children, meanwhile, can put even vaccinated children at risk. Respected medical organizations, including the Illinois Department of Public Health, the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics, dispute any link and recommend all children receive vaccinations.

Cavallari, currently pregnant with the Cutler’s second son, went on to explain, “Well, there is a pediatric group called Homestead, Homestead or Homefirst, now I have pregnancy brain I got them confused — they’ve never vaccinated any of their children, and they haven’t had one case of autism. And now one in 88 boys is autistic, which is a really scary statistic.”

The show host, former MTV VJ Kennedy, looked skeptical. “Well, my mom vaccinated us and she doesn’t have any cases of autism either,” she said. “Isn’t that weird?”

To which Cavallari replied, “The vaccinations have changed over the years, there’s more mercury and other…” she trailed off.

Yes, the vaccines have changed. But there’s less mercury than ever. As a precaution, by 2001, the mercury-based preservative thimerosal was removed from most vaccines for children under age 6 — with the exception of the influenza vaccine.

Homefirst Health Services, meanwhile — if that’s what Cavallari meant — is a Rolling Meadows-based pediatrics practice that embraces home births and shuns vaccines. Dr. Mayer Eisenstein and his practice were the subject of a 2009 Chicago Tribune investigation that shed light on the use of potentially dangerous alternative autism treatments. On the Homefirst website, Eisenstein maintains that “personal religious convictions, not scientific studies, are the main reasons, upon which to base your vaccination decision.”

The Tribune is seeking comment from Cavallari.
Why is this still swirling around America destroying our herd immunity?
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
*******s like these are why there are currently 19 cases of measles in NYC.
 

quagmire

macrumors 603
Apr 19, 2004
6,255
1,063
I call myself an independent for reasons like this. It's not their right to put those who cannot be vaccinated at risk by ruining herd immunity.
It's definitely a touchy subject, but I generally agree. A persons rights extend only so far. If ones actions harms another person, their rights stop there. Not vaccinating their kids may harm others. So I don't see it as a parents right not to vaccinate their kids because it exposes others.
 

steve knight

macrumors 68030
Jan 28, 2009
2,596
6,958
their kids/their right.
so if that miniature typhoid Mary goes and passes something on to other children or someone with immune problems and they die is that ok too?

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there was a study that was just conducted that shows nothing can change an antivaxxer's mind just like religion. I think if you are not going to vax your child they should not be allowed to go to school with the public. that's how it used to be and it was fine. all the reasons are just crap people have heard or found on the internet and never proven.
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
38,996
Criminal Mexi Midget
so if that miniature typhoid Mary goes and passes something on to other children or someone with immune problems and they die is that ok too?

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there was a study that was just conducted that shows nothing can change an antivaxxer's mind just like religion. I think if you are not going to vax your child they should not be allowed to go to school with the public. that's how it used to be and it was fine. all the reasons are just crap people have heard or found on the internet and never proven.
aren't those kids with immune problems exposing other kids? :rolleyes:
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
16,505
15
On tenterhooks
so if that miniature typhoid Mary goes and passes something on to other children or someone with immune problems and they die is that ok too?

there was a study that was just conducted that shows nothing can change an antivaxxer's mind just like religion. I think if you are not going to vax your child they should not be allowed to go to school with the public. that's how it used to be and it was fine. all the reasons are just crap people have heard or found on the internet and never proven.
Up here, if religion gets in the way of a sound medical judgment in the treatment of a child, he/she is made a Ward of the Court, and the treatment goes ahead.

And example is the child of a JW that requires blood transfusions, and the parents forbid it on religious grounds.
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68030
Jun 29, 2012
2,849
1,871
Canada
People often focus on vaccines and what they are supposed to do and get up in arms when others say things like they are not vaccinating their kids.

The question is not if vaccines are effective - they have saved millions of human lives in history. The issue is that today, what they put in vaccines is disgusting and toxic. When you look at the ingredients and say "that will not harm my body or my children's" then I would classify you as out to lunch.

I mean, what more can you say to someone who thinks it's safe to inject Mercury into a toddler - or an adult for that matter?
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
Not getting vaccinated by choice is a first world problem.

Because certain illnesses are rarely seen, it creates a false sense of security.

Visit India where there is still straight up plague and you'll be running to get vaccinated.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
so post 8 is fine then, if YOUR kids are vaccinated then there is no problem.

And what about kids too young to have been vaccinated? Do you want your 1 year old getting measles from some 4 year old at daycare whose parents decided against vaccinating them at?
 

DUCKofD3ATH

Suspended
Jun 6, 2005
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I mean, what more can you say to someone who thinks it's safe to inject Mercury into a toddler - or an adult for that matter?
Took all of 10 seconds on Google to debunk that nonsense:

MYTH #4: There is a lot of mercury (thimerosol) in vaccines, which is dangerous.

FACT: Extensive research has failed to show any consistent link between thimerosal in vaccines and any health condition including autism. Thimerosal was removed from all routine child vaccines in 2001. Despite the removal of thimerosal from childhood vaccines, autism rates have continued to rise. This is the opposite of what would be expected if thimerosal caused autism.​
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
16,505
15
On tenterhooks
Took all of 10 seconds on Google to debunk that nonsense:

MYTH #4: There is a lot of mercury (thimerosol) in vaccines, which is dangerous.

FACT: Extensive research has failed to show any consistent link between thimerosal in vaccines and any health condition including autism. Thimerosal was removed from all routine child vaccines in 2001. Despite the removal of thimerosal from childhood vaccines, autism rates have continued to rise. This is the opposite of what would be expected if thimerosal caused autism.​
Preconceived notions are the hardest to eradicate.

It's like ....... dare I say ....... a disease. :p
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
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Somewhere
aren't those kids with immune problems exposing other kids? :rolleyes:
The number of people who can't be vaccinated is small enough that if everyone else is vaccinated they are protected through herd immunity. If enough parents are dumb enough not to vaccinate their kids then it causes diseases that are preventable to come back and infect people who are for various reasons such as having a weakened immune system, or being too young are not vaccinated.

My personal opinion on it is that no matter what we do some parents will still be stupid enough to not vaccinate their kids, and we should change the laws so that if a kid that wasn't vaccinated dies of a preventable disease the parents can be charged with murder, unless that kid has an actual reason why they couldn't be vaccinated in which case any parents of non vaccinated kids at their school or anywhere else they could have come in contact with the disease should be charged.
 

unlinked

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
695
1,199
Ireland
if YOUR kids are vaccinated then YOUR kids are just fine.
Vaccines don't provide immunity 100% of the time.

Then again if protecting your own children isn't powerful enough motivation to get them vaccinated I don't think the risks that are being caused to other peoples children will make much difference.
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
38,996
Criminal Mexi Midget
Vaccines don't provide immunity 100% of the time.

Then again if protecting your own children isn't powerful enough motivation to get them vaccinated I don't think the risks that are being caused to other peoples children will make much difference.
What if you believe you ARE protecting your kids by NOT vaccinating them?
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
What if you believe you ARE protecting your kids by NOT vaccinating them?
Then you're an idiot and no better than the parents who let their children die because they'd rather pray their illness away than get medical treatment - and we've prosecuted some of those people before.