Why are you for illegal immigration?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #101
    That's basically where I am. The ones that commit felonies or even certain misdemeanors should be shown the door. But I don't agree with shipping people away who want to be law-abiding and productive.

    Maybe give them some sort of temp status that buys them time to go through the process of becoming documented without leaving the country, but something that doesn't just turn into amnesty.
     
  2. MaulRx Suspended

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    Aug 27, 2012
    #102
    Do the ones that stay and can't vote have to pay taxes?
     
  3. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #103
    Why wouldn't they?
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    Gladly Sessions and Trump will no doubt team up to boot them the hell out. He's getting things in motion already.
     
  4. MaulRx Suspended

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    Aug 27, 2012
    #104
    ...because they don't get to vote?
     
  5. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    Jun 1, 2014
    #105
    If you outlaw immigration, only the outlaws will immigrate.

    So I guess it's Trump who is for illegal immigration.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #106
    One of the first people to deported under Trump's new immigration order, was a 35-yr old mother of two (US citizen) teenagers.

    This woman's crime: She used a fake SS# to work at an Arizona waterpark. Where she was (presumably) paying social security and other taxes. She had, as the quote suggests, regularly checked in with the ICE office for the past eight years. And thanks to Trump, she s in detention, and likely on her way back to Mexico - a country she hasn't seen in more than twenty years.

    Quick question: Do you think all the other people required to check in with ICE offices are going to make their appointments, now? Or do you think it's more likely that they'll disappear into the shadows.

    Please explain how this is making "America great again." Please explain how this is making any of us safer. I don't know precisely what threat a 35 year-old mother of two really poses to the rest of us. How is breaking up a family supposed to make this country any better off? And without their mother, what is to happen to the two young US citizens who depended on her? Do you feel better knowing that the taxpayer will probably end up paying many thousands of dollars to deport this woman, and many thousands more to support her children.

    Great job, Trump. You miserable piece of ****.
     
  7. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #107
    I'd say yeah. They're paying sales tax for buying stuff here. They should pay income taxes when they earn money here.

    It's much simpler administratively that way also. Everyone gets a W2 or 1099 regardless of where you came from.
     
  8. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #108
    So what. My brother in law is from a foriegn land, chooses to keep his citizneship there and instead chooses to be a permiant resident here as an MD with a thriving practice and thus giving up his right to vote.

    So yes, you would have to pay taxes and unlike those that chose to abide by our laws and come here LEGALLY and become citizens, no the ones I'd let stay will not be allowed to vote. if they want to make that choice, leave and come back legally and go through the correct process then by all means let them. I'd be willing to see that be allowed.
     
  9. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #109
    Unless you work under the table and you don't even have your information logged into the employers database.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreported_employment
     
  10. MaulRx Suspended

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    #110
    His keeping his citizenship to his home country tells me he intends to go back one day. Most of the undocumented that come here don't.
     
  11. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    Ireland
    #111
    What was the benefit to anyone of her checking in with immigration on a regular basis?
     
  12. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #112
    His intentions are irrelevant to the matter at hand. The fact that he came here and obeyed our process and did it the right way is key. He can choose to become a citizen and then vote but I do not feel we should allow Illegal Aliens that same option.
     
  13. BarracksSi Suspended

    BarracksSi

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    Jul 14, 2015
    #113
    Before my wife got her permanent resident status (the fabled "green card"), she paid her taxes. Don't know exactly how, but somehow, she did.

    When she finally had her naturalization ceremony a year ago, the first question she had was, "How can I register to vote?" Turns out that they have a staffer at the ceremony who helps all the new citizens fill out their voter registration forms.

    Heck of a day. She voted in her first-ever US primary election just a couple months later. I can't fully describe how stoked she was.
     
  14. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #114
    Well, true. But US citizens do this also. That's never stopped the IRS from collecting income taxes before.

    My guess is that if you have fewer people who are "undocumented", you'll have fewer getting paid under the table.

    EDIT: especially if doing so gets you automatically tossed out of the country.
     
  15. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #115
    It's truly an amazing feeling! Congratulations to your wife.
    I also voted in my first electoral cycle this year! (and I also registered to vote on the same day I got naturalized. It takes about 15 seconds).
     
  16. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #116
    I think the IRS would have an easier time going after the employers. Honestly they are the ones not only allowing this to happen but are most likely paying the worker less. Though it would feel like more due to no taxes being paid. Plus the dangers of unskilled workers doing jobs that could cost them their lives. With no way of getting disability or workers comp as they are not even shown to have been employed and/or are citizens capable of applying for such benefits.

    As long as there are companies willing to deploy these tactics and not be lawfully punished, there will be workers who will do these jobs.
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #117
    If you spend more than 6 months+1 day on US soil, you pay US taxes.
    Most often there is a deal with the country of origin for which you don't pay double taxation (or as it was for me, 0 taxes in my country of origin).
     
  18. MaulRx Suspended

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    Aug 27, 2012
    #118
    I'm not arguing that. I was simply asking if under his plan would it include the right to vote.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    Then you favor the loss or denial of voting rights as a punishment for their being illegal? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; just trying to find out where you stand.
     
  19. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #119
    Right to vote for non citizens? Heck no! You would see me protesting in D.C.
     
  20. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #120
    I agree. No one should be exploited, especially someone who is simply trying to make a living. The problem is, how do you even detect it if both the employer and employee have an incentive to keep their mouths shut about what's happening, and if you can't detect it, how do you enforce a law against it?

    It's just a bad situation all around with so many people living here with no official status or documentation.
     
  21. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    Nov 30, 2009
    #121
    They would be allowed to go to federal parks. And travel on interstate highways. And benefit from federal agencies that provide controls on pollution, drug quality and food quality. They would be able to travel using airports that are partially funded by the federal government. And if they have an emergency, they could be examined and treated in emergency rooms irrespective of their ability to pay (courtesy of a federal law).

    So yeah, they should, at a minimum, pay taxes.
     
  22. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #122
    I don't see a problem with that. I don't think the right to vote is something that should necessarily be extended to someone simply because they live/work here.

    I wouldn't call it "punishment" either, as long as there is a viable path to citizenship and the voting rights that go along with it.
     
  23. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    Mar 23, 2010
    #123
    Correct. As noted it's not a punishment. I'm also still not entirely decided on if they should ever be allowed full citizenship and the right to vote. In summary, I stand by my opinions to this point but reserve the fact that they may change too.
     
  24. HEK macrumors 68040

    HEK

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    #124
    I never said or purported that the indian nations were united as one tribe. Yes they fought among themselves some me tribes at some times. Other coexisted.

    My point is, as you have stated, None of this land grab or forced immigration is ethical. But then humans have seldom acticed ethically when self interest is involved.

    I just get worked up when some people believe in the rightness of their cause when in fact it's only might. The europeans with advanced technology and superior numbers overcame any resistence and then wrote the history to suit themselves.

    Somerimes i delude myself and actually believe that our government actually believes in the ideals it was founded under and the propoganda it spouts. Rather than the special interests it now caters the to.

    But then sanity prevails and i realize humans are a single species on narrow edge of extinction. Since 99% of previous species are extinct, we too shall pass. All evidence of our existance will be erased during the next 5 billion years the earth will be around.
     
  25. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #125
    That would bring me to Washington too. I already don't agree with non citizens being able to vote at the local level in some areas.
     

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