Why are you for illegal immigration?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #126
    So to summarize your plan would have the illegals who are criminals kicked out, the illegals who aren't marked forever as permeant residents with no chance of ever having the right to vote?
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    Again, I'm not disagreeing with that.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    Agreed, it wouldn't be punishment IF it could be rectified at a later point. i.e. felons
     
  2. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    #127
    No go on Felons. Illegal Aliens that have committed a felony shouldn't get a chance for anything at a later date. They go home and stay home.
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #128
    If it's on municipal resolutions (issue of a bond, increase of budget expenses, building a stadium... stuff like that) I don't mind for GC holders. I oppose anything more.
     
  4. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #129
    Why should we be any rougher on them than we are on our home grown felons? Hell there are places in this country you can kill on up to three separate occasions before you do life.
     
  5. Herdfan thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #130
    We need a valid guest worker program. They can come, work and pay taxes and then return home. The key here is we know who they are and where they are. If they don't leave when the harvest is over, they don't get to come back.

    Yes it is. And there are laws that dictate how it is to happen. If the laws are bad, work to change them, but don't not enforce them because you don't like them.

    That makes sense on one hand. But look at Venezuela. They have more oil than they know what to do with, but are so corrupt that poverty is rampant. You can't fix corruption by throwing more money at it.


    I am not.

    First, we need to stop them from coming illegally. Once we get to that point we can come up with a fair solution to for those brought here as children or to be with families. More on that later.


    See my answer about Venezuela.


    And the remedy is still deportation.

    I am not against legal immigration. My father's family were immigrants in the early 20's. He was not born here, but his parents came here legally. I am against illegal immigration.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    So here is my solution to the problem. Take your best shot.

    1) Stop them from coming in. This has to be step one. Whether it is a wall or a fence or being held in a detention facility until their court date, the flood needs to be stopped.

    1A) Start deporting criminals. If you are an illegal with a violent criminal record, you're gone. No chance for citizenship ever.

    2) Get them registered. I know they will resist, but tough. We need to know who they are. Those who register get a Visa allowing them to stay. If you don't register by a certain time, you are gone.

    3) Create a priority list. Kids who were brought in as minor are first, spouses and parents of legal citizens are second. Singles are last.

    4) Legitimate guest worker program to allow workers to come in for set periods of time to work. Number allowed in on this Visa will be determined by supply/demand.

    5) Those who registered get to start the process of becoming a citizen. If there are 12M illegals, I would allow 1-2M per year to become citizens, but they have to do the same things as anyone else.

    6) From the start date, anyone who enters the USA illegally automatically become ineligible for citizenship under this plan. So if you are caught coming in illegally, you lose any chance of becoming a citizen. Entering again becomes a criminal offense and you spend 1 year in jail for each time you try. So caught once, 1 year. Caught a second time, 2 years and so on. We need to make it so unattractive that they won't try.

    Fire away.
     
  6. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #131
    Are we though? Is it really worse to commit a crime here and be sent back to Mexico as a free man? You could argue that they're getting a pretty good deal. :p

    As a practical and conceptual matter, why would we even want to incur that cost? We have to do that for home-grown felons because they're citizens and we can't do anything else with them.

    I don't see any reason to incarcerate and attempt to rehabilitate some other country's law breakers.
     
  7. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    #132
    because they aren't our home grown anything. they are illegal aliens. no, they don't get the same treatment.

    that's a problem that needs fixed too but not a point that would even remotely be used to give an illegal alien felon anything but the boot in the butt the deserve.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    Agree.
     
  8. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #133
    That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that felons(i.e. people) from one place and background are worse than another based simply on where they are from\who they are. That's the definition of racism.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    They aren't sent back upon committing a major crime. They regularly do hard time on our dollar then get sent back. And I agree that felons should be punished, I don't agree that we should be treating different groups with different rules. We have laws and due process in this country. The 14th applies to everyone, not just citizens.
     
  9. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Location:
    Horsens, Denmark
    #134
    I think the marxist theory I spoke of works pretty well there
     
  10. oneMadRssn macrumors 601

    oneMadRssn

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Location:
    New England
    #135
    Most people completely misunderstand what happened to Venezuela. I highly reccomend listening to this episode of Planet Money, it's only 20 minutes. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/10/21/498867764/episode-731-how-venezuela-imploded

    Venezuela negligently mismanaged its wealth while they had it. Instead of saving the oil money or using it to invest in other industries, they spent it to import everything they needed and then subsidized everything to make everything cheaper for it's citizens. While this had an instant gratification effect, in that everyone felt a lot richer, it was not sustainable. The oil market collapsed, and there was no more money for the subsidies, so everything got a lot more expensive. Since there was no non-oil industry, there was nothing else to prop up the economy. The US, economically speaking, far more diverse. and not really subject to the same issue.

    What Venezuela should have done is what Norway does with its oil money. First, start a massive savings fund with the oil money, and use this savings fund to smooth out the fluctuations in oil price. Second, use the oil money to invest in building other industries. For example, instead of importing produce, give grants to farmers that want to expand their farms; or instead of importing cars, give grants and tax credits to companies that build local car factories and employ local people; instead of importing scientists and researchers, invest in local universities; instead of importing building materials, give grants to companies that make local building materials, etc. Third, don't spend today like the price will stay that high forever.

    Basically, Venezuela's issue is they were run by a populist dictator that didn't know economics theory and catered to the poor and unemployed for his political support by making overzealous economic promises, and the country ended up bankrupt.
     
  11. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    #136
    No, they aren't getting a break as a fellon because:

    They are an Illegal Alien on top of the fact that they are a felon. Makes no sense in either alone let alone both combined cases to give them a break or treat them like a citizen. They are not. Boot them back home and no, they don't get a chance on coming back in at all. Tough. Don't like it then perhaps they shouldn't have come here illegally and then committed a crime.

    Sorry dude, it's time to put Americans First for the first time in a long while.
     
  12. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #137
    ...you just repeated the same sentiment. Because of where they are from\who they are from you are unwilling to give them the same breaks criminals here get. Under your plan two strikes(coming here illegally, committing a second crime) and you are out. Also, I'll point out again that due process doesn't apply just to citizens.
     
  13. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #138
    To be honest, I don't like the idea of putting undocumented felons in prison at all. It's cheaper and more efficient to put them on a bus and send them away (although, I'll admit I don't really have an answer for people who make multiple border crossings).

    I just don't see the issue with citizens getting different treatment than non-citizens. Isn't that the point of being a citizen of a country? The 14th amendment gurantees due process of law. That's fine. Codify the exportation of undocumented people that commit felonies, give them their day in court and once convicted, the statutory sentence is deportation. I just don't see what's wrong with that.
     
  14. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #139
    That is a partial cop-out.
    There are jobs that are classified that because the employers are taking advantage of the situation to not pay a realistic wage, to avoid taxes, avoid providing benefit, paying insurance, etc...

    As a child of immigrants, I can definitely say my parents are beyond pissed that they follow the letter of the law to properly emigrate while today we are having the "allow illegal...".
    Have to say I agree.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    While I may agree in part, fixing economy issues and requiring all immigrants to utilize the legal entry methods are two totally operate issues.
     
  15. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #140
    I don't disagree with that per se, so long that we aren't sending them back to a unfair\inhumane situation or punishment.

    ..for one we are forcing other countries to be part of our criminal justice system. The deportation is the punishment for the crime of coming here illegally, not the other crimes they commit once here. To say there should be a statutory punishment of deportation upon committing a crime so we don't have to foot the bill basically makes murder, rape etc a slap on the wrist.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    I agree. But that's on us, we need to force them to shape up.
     
  16. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #141
    So is the "no one wants to do these". Now that we have that identified, if crop harvesting, a major use of migrant workers" paid a decent legitimate wage, would not a different class of workers become available?
     
  17. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #142
    McDonalds starts people out at more per hour than some entry white collar jobs. yet they are hiring around the clock. Sure a part of the reason is the job sucks but...
     
  18. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #143
    Unfortunately, industries, foreign and domestic have been developed to take advantage of these folks.
    It should have been simple and once was (no longer):
    Illegal? Yes = Goodbye and Go Home
    Legal? Yes = Welcome to America!
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    More than WC? Exactly what WC jobs are those?
     
  19. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #144
    McDonalds in the bay area starts people out at at salary of around 30k a year. Average salary for say a data processor is around 26, 27. That's ignoring the high cost of the education you need to get the white collar job; another discussion for another topic.
     
  20. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #145
    Legal immigrants.
    The massive illegal problem is recent.
     
  21. MaulRx Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    #146
    Did I say illegal?
     
  22. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #147
    You do realize this illegal influx is a by product of the Mexican labor importation that occurred during WWII....
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2017 ---
    For those interested - an immigration legislation process timeline.
    http://www.infoplease.com/us/immigration/legislation-timeline.html
     
  23. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #148
    When someone in this country is sent to prison (with the exception of life or death row sentences), there really should be an end game that looks sort of like someone walking out of prison and integrating back into society as a law abiding, functional adult.

    I just don't know what that looks like for an illegal alien. They're not supposed to be here to begin with, so what do we do with them after they're released? I don't know how I feel about putting them in the same status as a "law-abiding" undocumented resident.

    What you said about rapists and murderers is definitely valid...sending rapists and murders back to Mexico with no penalty probably isn't the best idea. Maybe the best approach is to deport for some crimes and incarcerate for others.
     
  24. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    watching the birth of the Dem Communist Party
    #149
    He is correct. This has been covered significantly. Read the original filed in Wa. The local does not have grounds.
     
  25. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    #150
    bottom line is we don't own illegal aliens, especially felons a damn thing. sorry but they are lucky to get an offer to just simply get sent back.
     

Share This Page