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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Mar 11, 2009.
Besides, nice food in France.
Do you guys want to be France? Non?
Pourquoi? The Statue of Liberty was a gift to you from France, your revolution was inspired and assisted by them.
Where did it all go wrong?
I love france!
Americans tend to have a "were better than you" attitude to make up for our countries massive shortcomings.
Yeah! Except apostrophes are involved.
I like France, my sister says it's beautiful and that on her trek across Europe the French were by far the nicest people she came across. I think most Americans are afraid of becoming [french] Canada, our goody two shoes brother to the north, who, by the way, has never had a girlfriend. Just saying...
Funny, I get the same impression's from France.
It's a serious point in the first post, though.
Regardless of whichever side of the political spectrum you're from, when any American politician says that you'll become just like France, it's clear the comparison isn't true by any sense of the imagination when it comes to discussing tax rates, particularly when Obama is only planning to restoring rates to where they were under Bill Clinton.
Somehow, saying you'll become just like Germany doesn't sound as terrifying, does it? After all, nothing wrong with German engineering.
LOL Simpsons still rule supreme!
And this is amerikuh, were arguably getting ur learnins just aint cool! (pitiful education system compared to many other countries)
Somehow I think saying you want to become like Germany would put off just as many if not more people.
There are high levels of ignorance, fear, and flat out FUD regarding the rest of the world here.
I'd rather become just like France than just like Germany. Seems like more genocides have happened in Germany in the last century. Then again... I really liked Run Lola Run... oh but I also liked City of Lost Children. hmmmn... quite the dilemma.
I think there are a lot of things from France that could benefit the United States. One of the best healthcare systems in the world, for a start. Although, that is deemed as tyrannical by some. It it claimed that everybody having the right to healthcare would harm their freedom. Apparently, it is much more free not to have healthcare for 50m+ people than it is to have them covered. Quite why people accept the inefficient, poorly ranked system that operates in the US is beyond most people I've spoken to about the subject. You pay most and have a dreadful ranking.
As for using the 'we'll become France'; it is thoroughly disrespectful to a country that doesn't deserve to be used as an example.
Only because France can't win its own wars.
Stick to food
nom nom nom yum yum I'd like to know how the French eat so unhealthily, lots of wine, croissants etc etc yet still manage to not get fat? Theres some conspiracy going on
I rather agree here.
I think France has it pretty well together. The US should be so lucky to compare with France in terms of healthcare and economy, for that matter. They didn't have the massive unsustainable expansion and thus not such a massive bust.
I wish the US was more like France, but I'm not your typical American. I'd much rather be living anywhere in France than anywhere in the United States.
BV, although I am sure I am going to state what's already known here - I think France is still used as a comparison for the following reasons:
1. The fact that France was already given a "bad name" by some US political factions during the Iraq debacle (eg freedom fries etc). This negative connotation can continue to have (some) traction in some people's head's, despite any factual basis, due to sheer repetition and may people's knee-jerk reactions.
2. That France represents (or can represent) examples of all that is horrifying to some Conservative ilk. Huge taxes, giant bureaucracy, perceived military ineffectiveness and subsequent "lack of nerve", entrenched and large social programs - with government engineering in the marketplace perceived to limit individual and business acumen. Solidly secular - and enforced. Poor immigrant/racial integration - potential "terrorist" problems.
Not that any of this is true, necessarily - but comparing us to Ireland, however accurate, is just not going to get the job done - that being fighting any move towards increased/effective government tooth-and-nail.
You actually understand what Socialism actually is, Ryan. That in itself is very un-American
I don't understand the classic or stereotypical american apprehension for socialism. I think capitalism has a lot to answer for, especially in our current economic crisis.
It is best not to get me started on Capitalism.
It all comes down to poor education, in my opinion. I had to educate myself about it. In my high school economics class we didn't talk about any other economic model besides Capitalism. I'm sure there are a handful of school districts whose curriculum is different, but I wouldn't be surprised if my experience was typical. I didn't bother taking an economics class at University but I hear from people who did and they tell me it's the same at the University level too. It's pretty much just Capitalist indoctrination.
^ That makes sense, it5five. (and it does explain a lot) No wonder you don't feel entirely at home.
hehe, gotcha. I am starting to come around that way myself. Having grown up in a fairly upper/middle class conservative religious republican family, I am coming to grips with knowing that most everything I was told as a child really doesn't suit my own way of thinking at all. Ouch goes reality for Blue Blue black sheep.
That it really sad to hear. Awful, in fact.
Though it certainly explains a lot, no?
I'd be thrilled to find out that what I went through is actually atypical. But most people I've talked to from all around the US tell me the same thing. Prove me wrong, somebody.
Of course. It shows how insecure about the system the US are. If it is the best system then let people decide that for themselves. This forum has really opened my eyes to just how cloudy the knowledge is in some areas.
Don't get me wrong, some of the greatest people that have ever lived are American. Many Americans have bashed down barrier and found new frontiers. It is just that the mass population doesn't seem to do these free thinkers any justice.
I am not sure if it is entirely insecurity as it is blind belief and stubbornness that the american way is the right way. You are spoon fed this stuff in most schools from an early age. It is not so easy to come by unbiased information, especially before university. So those beliefs can be ingrained deep.
Maybe a mixture. The real test of an idea or philosophy is to let it stand up against other ideas, not block everything else out in the education of children. That is plain ol' indoctrination. I would imagine that in a lot of places it is the same with Christianity.
For me, that is a real crime. That isn't education so much as indoctrination into way of thinking that others want you to have.
I feel like I'm beating on America a little here, I don't mean to.