Why did the US put lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people in jail or prison before?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Bubble99, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #51

    Yes, lets stone the virgin Mary because she became pregnant out of wedlock!!


    (irony too subtle??)
     
  2. iDemiurge macrumors 6502

    iDemiurge

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    #52
    Even within marriage it can be sinful if it has a selfish character. I think the central idea behind Christian sexual morality is that you have to take the whole package as God-given, both the pleasure and the responsibility of intimacy. Not saying that I am an anti-contraceptive absolutist, but the idea that you can't just pick what you like and walk away from what you don't seems correct to me. In that sense heterossexual couples have turned marriage into such a mess that we can't really blame the gay crowd for wanting the right to get married as well.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    I agree. Context, intertextuality and faith are all very important. It is necessary humbleness to acknowledge that we won't understand things straight away by reading a few passages once, faith to believe that God will help us understand what we don't, and patience as well, but unfortunately we live in very anxious times.
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #53
    I totally agree. Personally - and here I might attract some hate towards me - I think that divorce is much more detrimental to our society than abortion.
     
  4. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #54
    I think they are both endemic of a throw away culture. Both are deplorable to me.
     
  5. iDemiurge, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017

    iDemiurge macrumors 6502

    iDemiurge

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    #55
    I think what @yaxomoxay has alluded to is the fact that people often get into unnecessary debates into the notion of immaculate conception because they do not understand its relative importance within their faith. Jesus is also said to be in the lineage of King David through Joseph. If that's the case, they Joseph was in fact his father. But neither immaculate conception nor the belief that Jesus was descended from David are crucial to the core message of Christianity, which is that Jesus, the son of God, has come to the world to reveal the truth and through that truth set us free from the bondage of sin. Paying a little attention to what people say/write does not hurt.


    EDIT: Ok, my bad, I see what you meant with your irony now. But it was a little far-fetched.
     
  6. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #56
    And here's the facepalm. The immaculate conception has nothing to do with Mary's pregnancy. THIS is exactly what I was saying. #facepalm
     
  7. iDemiurge macrumors 6502

    iDemiurge

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    #57
    I don't know, they're both a failure to live up to Christian values. If things come to those, either divorce or abortion, it is because things were already going bad much earlier down the line. The most important thing is not to punish every single divorce or abortion, but to fight this "cultural normalization", you know, this notion that either divorce or abortion are no big deal.
     
  8. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #58
    Exactly.
    But then that seems to make Mary equivalent, or greater than, Jesus.

    However I think it is all a marketing ploy by the Catholic church to get the women vote.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    You would have neither if sexuality was openly and explicitly discussed
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    Yes and No.
    TO a huge majority, they believe as you said.
    Same with Torah and Qu'ran
     
  9. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #59
    Of course I disagree, but I respect your opinion. ;)
     
  10. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #60
    Besides being the sensible thing to do, it was fun.

    Seriously, if this isn't a troll thread... o_O
     
  11. Nefilim Suspended

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    #61
    Aren't you some lazy religious ............. to begin with?
     
  12. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #62
    No.
     
  13. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #63
    Yeah much better to force men and women to stay in abusive relationships. Divorce isn't ideal, but there are situations where it is a better option than continuing an abusive (physically or emotionally marriage). I fail to see how children are better living in an abusive relationship than having divorced parents. Maybe there is an element of people not trying to save their relationships, and just quitting, but who knows how to solve that.
     
  14. iDemiurge macrumors 6502

    iDemiurge

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    #64
    This is a fallacy. Abortions and divorces are not the direct result of sexuality not been openly discussed. Of course secrecy and taboo do not help, but the issue is that parents are not succeeding in providing their children with an education that turns them into fully developed moral agents. The relativism and materialism of modern society also does not help them in this endeavour. It is important to teach the young about sexuality, because it is part of the world, but also about other things that will help them be well-rounded adults, such as about responsibility, our mortality, personal strength in the face of adversity, etc etc..
     
  15. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #65
    If anything is destroying America it is the view by far too many that the lives of it citizens is disposable.
     
  16. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #66
    A winkie and uses an Kissinger avatar...

    Much depth in your post. ;)
     
  17. Bubble99 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #67
    Are you saying if it was not for the hippies that chance are we would still have old laws on the lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender? The old crazy laws.

    It was also common that having sex with some one with out marriage or living with some one in a common law living with out marriage was illegal in US.

    Like a guy and girl living together in a common law living with out marriage or having sex with out marriage.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 4, 2017 ---
    I'm not sure what you mean by Sodomy or buggery.

    But lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender where put in jail or mental institutions. The US and much of the world was very conservative in the 50's and before the 50's.

    The hippies and the activists in the 60's and 70's started the sex revolution. Before that there was those old crazy laws.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 4, 2017 ---
    So it is okay for straight people to have oral and anal sex just not lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people? That is the way the laws for written to go after lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people?
     
  18. 5684697, Feb 4, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  19. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #69
    I think you're not familiar with some songs....
     
  20. jeyf macrumors 65816

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    #70
    The baby Boomer generation born 1946 - 64 never dealt with gay rights. Their counter culture was still homophobic and burned out before gay rights started. Two tiny 3% American sub cultures just never intersected.
     
  21. Gutwrench Contributor

    Gutwrench

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    #71
    Driving with a knee while holding a beer and phone is dangerous. Get both knees on the wheel or put that phone down! God damn it!
     
  22. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #72
    I'm saying historically (to my limited understanding anyway) oral and anal sex were illegal whether you were homosexuals or heterosexual and any understanding of why they were illegal for homosexuals probably is incomplete without understanding why they were illegal for heterosexuals.
     
  23. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #73
    Divorce is common in most western countries and is a fairly new thing just like marriage. We never know what life is going to throw at us and relationships break up from time to time. My parents split up when I was six years old and I've always understood their reasons. It's not about 'throwing things away' but more about doing the best to make ourselves happy. I'm happily married and I hope I always will be, but things can change.

    I'm sure divorces will occur in the gay community too now we've finally caught up with the times and allowed marriage for all. That's life. My wife's brother married his long term male partner and I hope they have a long and successful marriage.
     
  24. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #74
    Its easy to criticise, but homosexuality in England was decriminalised until the late 60's.
     
  25. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #75
    And I want to say homosexuality wasn't officially decriminalized in Germany until 1994.

    The LGBT people liberated from the concentration camps were then placed in prison for violating Paragraph 175.


    Also, to OP, many police raids of gay bars are how many gay men and women and especially transpeople were arrested, in the first half of the 20th century. This kind of activity is what lead to the Stonewall Uprising.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
     

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