Why do American's oppose public healthcare?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iGuardian, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. iGuardian macrumors 6502a

    iGuardian

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    #1
    I, someone who has grown up outside of the United States, cannot understand why Americans are so harshly opposing public healthcare. I live in Canada, and yes, we complain about our healthcare system but we wouldn't trade it for anyone else's. Same thing goes for many in the United Kingdom. I've heard so many horror stories about insurance companies just not treating people...

    Healthcare, the well being of another human being, shouldn't be a business. And no, there shouldn't be a government official in the way of your healthcare, but there won't be. That's just a lie.

    As for complaining that you'd have to pay for higher taxes, that's just selfish. It's extremely selfish.

    I'm open to debate. Ask away, ask me about the Canadian healthcare system, oppose the proposed US system, and I'll be happy to have a good, grown up conversation.
     
  2. spaceboots06 macrumors 6502a

    spaceboots06

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    #2
    An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class.

    The class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.

    All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

    As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

    When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

    The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

    All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

    Could not be any simpler than that.

    If somebody is unable to understand THIS explanation, I have serious doubts about their ability to even function in society, much less run our country!

    As the late Adrian Rogers said, “you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
     
  3. Surely Guest

    Surely

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    #3
    You have your answer. It's because of people like this ^^^^^^^^
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    I agree with everything you just said. I've even said that if health insurance became not for profit, I'd be all for it, but no one wants to talk about that option.

    The main reason? People are afraid. They've been bombarded with lies about UHC from so many directions that it's hard to ignore.

    Who said that Obama was going to make it so no one was rich and no one was poor? Honestly, this is ridiculous! Where in the hell does this BS come from? It's a flat-out lie, and I'm getting sick of it.
     
  5. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #5
    I am not opposed to a public health care system as long as it doesn't add to the deficit. I would even pay a few % higher in taxes at this point just so I didn't have to be bombarded from every direction from both sides about it. Seriously, listening to the radio about makes me want to stab my eyes out at this point. They actually schedule the commercials back to back from one side to the next.

    I want solid proof backed up by independent study that this will ease the deficit and not add to it before this is implemented. Obama said he wanted that too, but he uses fuzzy numbers and statistics.
     
  6. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    #6
     
  7. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #7
    What a ridiculous comparison.

    Britain spends less per head of population on health care than America, yet manages to give free health care to every citizen when America does not. The American system of health care has to be one of the worst in the world. Not only does it cost the government more but it costs individuals more as well because they have to pay costly health insurance.

    But, hey, if you like throwing money away knock yourself out. On the other hand if you want to throw money away at least put it to good use and donate it to starving children in Africa rather than throwing it away on some political ideology.
     
  8. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #8
    If you look at surveys, the vast majority of Americans were for a public option. That is, until all the misinformation started. It is coming from both sides but the right has just taken this to a new level.

    In watching the town hall meetings, I do believe that many of the people speaking actually believe the crap they've heard. Sad and scary.
     
  9. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #9
    It is not particularly surprising given that the majority of Americans do not believe in evolution.
     
  10. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #10
    What does that have to do with anything?

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  11. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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    #11
    Do you watch nothing but Fox and listen to no one but Glen Beck? Seriously, you seem like you could be intelligent so why the hell do you spew talking points? That's all they are. Anyone who calls Obama a socialist just doesn't have a clue.
     
  12. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #12

    Except it's not a 'true story'. But hey, if you all forward the email to enough people and post it on enough websites, maybe it'll become real.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    It means that most Americans aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree. Haven't you noticed that we're beginning to fall behind the rest of the world?
     
  14. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #14
    i suppose we Americans look at the socialized medicine of England which cost half as much as medicare expenses in the US however they have the lowest cancer survival rate. Wait times for various procedures and seeing specialists is much much longer in England and Canada as compared to the US. I also read that England rations the healthcare, so that if someone requires an expensive treatment to survive but the odds are not high, they may decline that person's ability to receive it.

    Finally I have to say at least in the US what program has the US successfully executed in such way that it reduced costs and provided a great benefit.

    One more thing, Obama is using the universal care provided here in Massachusetts as a template for the nationwide program. I live in Mass and I can safely say that its not a sustainable program. Its costing more money then anyone dared believed and taxes on employers are going to increase. This is at a time where we're trying to get employers to high more people, they're not about to do that when they're expenses are going through the roof.

    Having the government tax the very people are creating jobs is not smart move to keep the economy going. His own advisers have already stated that you cannot reduce costs while providing universal care - at least in the short term.

    My perspective is lets fix the economy and get things back on track there and then focus on the healthcare issue, lets not add hundreds of billions of dollars of debt
     
  15. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #15
    Then consider me a dimwitted American because I fail to see any logical correlation between public health care views and views on evolution.

    Carry on

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    Got links for all these assertions? Remember that we have a lot of foreign members here who will undoubtedly refute every one of your claims.

    Umm...I don't know how you're missing the point.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #17
    Zombie Acorn -

    I fail to see how your anecdote is at all applicable to Healthcare.

    As to the larger question posed by the OP - I would answer that only a % of Americans oppose public healthcare - and this % varies according to how it is framed and/or understood by individuals.

    America has a long-perpetuated mythos of "rugged individualism" - which is, on many levels, not applicable to past or present realities.

    I would guess that our decent standard-of-living and consumer culture have corrupted both individuals and society in some ways - as is historically documented in other leisure cultures.

    This corruption is manifested in a certain decline in civic engagement and in a degree of "looking out for #1" selfishness - often accompanied by a retreat from societal problems in gated communities and a desire for a personally low tax-burden, among other things.

    While the ability to be successful in the US by one's own initiative is on some levels true and laudable - it is achievable only on the foundation of a solid, civic minded society- which implies a degree of cooperation and altruism which is both crumbling and conveniently ignored by some.

    I would be more open to an honest debate about alternatives to Public healthcare from the dissenters - but considering the tactics being used by some on the right - I am not sure they have a decent plan to advance.
     
  18. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #18
    I take issue with that statement. Just because I disagree with evolution in no way indicates my lack of intelligence. I have two collage degrees, I'm work in the high tech industry and I've very well versed in evolution, and creationism.

    Personally I believe in the Bible and it states that God created the world. This has nothing to do with the discussion of people's opposition to public healthcare. Btw, I'm not opposed to it, but I am opposed to increasing debt, not having true debates and having senators who admittedly have not read the entire bill but yet state how much its going to help people. They're not talking from a position of knowledge just rhetoric and politics.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    Not having true debates? You must be talking about Republicans then. How can anyone have a true debate when they're constantly fear-mongering and flat-out lying?

    And some of the dumbest people I know I met in college (not saying you're dumb). Degrees do not make one intelligent.
     
  20. Surely Guest

    Surely

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    #20
    ^^^^ And don't forget yelling and screaming at those town hall meetings and not letting the Senators have a chance to state their case. That's not a debate.

    It reminded me of this story that floated around university: a student wasn't prepared for an exam, so he took his exam paper to the bathroom at the beginning of the exam, filled in all the answers, and then, after the exam, he approached the professor, and asked if the prof knew his name. When the prof said "no", the student knocked the exams out of the prof's hand, threw his exam into the pile, and ran away. Happened to roommate's cousin. For honest.:rolleyes: It also reminded me of the "Which tire was flat?" university story.

    Unfortunately, I fully agree with that. This country has reached a new level of crazy.
     
  21. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #21
    Both are stupid.

    I didn't state that it meant the person who did not believe in evolution was stupid. I just meant that the lack of belief itself was stupid and shows a fundamental desire to ignore the available evidence, which catagorically proves that evolution exists but is also going on all the time around us.
     
  22. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #22

    Fiddlesticks, m'dear!

    As has been stated ad nauseam by others on this topic, the healthcare costs are cheaper in the UK with a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than in the US. If that's the result, then thank goodness for 'rationing'!
     
  23. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #23
    I am not sure I agree with this characterization.

    First, to the degree that we are falling behind the rest of the world, causes can be much more that relative stupidness. Laziness, societal inertia, or societal pressures (such as rising costs-of-living) can also be blamed.

    Second, I am not sure that the implication that those who disagree with UHC (or whatever) are stupid is a great method to have a genuine discussion.

    I personally feel that UHC, is the right thing to do, but am always interested in compelling arguments otherwise. The crap that has been put out by some on the Right is not necessarily indicative of the average person's position in opposing UHC. At least I would hope not...
     
  24. drewsof07 macrumors 68000

    drewsof07

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    #24
    I think there are a few main reasons people don't want this system. Mainly because there are several things we just cannot know about the future. People aren't willing to risk their health for fear of the unknown.

    1. As a nurse, I can tell you there is already a shortage of doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers nationwide. Hospitals only have so many beds available, opening healthcare to all will create a surplus of patients. Doctors can only see so many patients in one day. You can't magically train additional physicians in the next 5 years to meet patient needs. Also, from the perspective of the physician there are fewer incentives to enter medical school. With healthcare costs down, the doctor will see a decrease in salary and because he sees more patients, will incur an increased malpractice insurance charge.

    2. People see how poorly the government has handled public options for other things. Obama himself compared the new healthcare system to the USPS (UPS/fedex as a competing private service), but failed to mention the USPS has been talking of cutting service to 5 days a week to reduce costs due to deficits. Will they make healthcare available only 5 days a week if problems occur?

    3. In the long-term, will your private insurance still be available? Will your options still be here in 10-20 years when you will start using them, or will the public insurance stamp out competition?

    4. How many of the "50 million" uninsured Americans are young adults (18-35) who do not use any medical care except an annual checkup?
     
  25. killerrobot macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

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    #25
    Fear, mistrust of government officials and lack of international travel.
     

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