Why do billionaires feel victimized by Obama?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #1
    Interesting read in the New Yorker:

    www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/08/121008fa_fact_freeland?currentPage=allc

    It is all about the attitudes of a group of super-rich, centering on Leon Cooperman. He's the guy who famously sent President Obama a letter:

    So, I'm sorry, but obviously in Leon Cooperman's mind, he is a "maker", along with his banker and hedge-fund-manager friends. I don't think that is necessarily so. Some of them provide asset management services, just as a dentist does. (Read the article). Some of them make the world of investing more efficient, just like iPhones might make things more efficient for a business traveler. But, some investment bankers and hedge-fund-managers don't. They don't help people, they don't make things more efficient, they don't fund new businesses hiring people. Instead, they play advanced financial games that create, and then profit from, instability.

    Some of those games have resulted in massive losses for ordinary people just trying to save for retirement. And none of them are actually creating anything, goods or services, that ordinary people actually use on a day-to-day basis. General Motors, and your local dentist, are makers. What Leon Cooperman does may be necessary at some level, but, isn't anything "real". It is derivative, in the old sense, capitalism. I think it is sad the exalted status these guys have in their own minds, comparing themselves to, for example, Steve Jobs. And they are angry at President Obama for pointing out that we all have our part to play in the economy, when, in their minds, only their roles really matter.
     
  2. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #2
    Often when I hear business people talk, I definitely get this vibe of entitlement from them. Like government's main purpose is to help them get richer. Like wealth redistribution is an outrage...unless it's upward, in which case it's just peachy-dandy. Like creating products is such an archaic way to earn money; playing games with cash is the way to go now.

    I do think they have some of the same issues Romney has. They're so used to playing in rarefied fields that they have no connection to ideas like responsibility and community.
     
  3. Rampant.A.I. macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    I get the feeling that business welfare entitlement is now the norm, whereas individual welfare is a terrible, wasteful spending.

    On the one hand, you have people who can't afford regular meals or pay property taxes because their employers don't pay them enough to, on the other you have business owners whining that they can't make the kind of profit margins they want because they have to pay their employees too much and provide benefits.

    It's abundantly clear when you hear people who are involved in big business talk--like Romney--that they have no memory of what working to stay alive is like. They may have an idea of what working hard to get ahead is like, but when you start with a cushion of family money and investments, you can never really understand the experience of someone working a 60-hour week to keep a roof over their family.
     
  4. AhmedFaisal, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  5. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #5
    OMG. I've never really thought of property tax in this light!!!
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
    [​IMG]

    Nough said.

    What do you do with a billion dollars that is shoved in bank accounts until you die?

    I am not for vilification of success, but I am not going to sit through a boo hoo me speech when you make more money in a week than some people will amass for the year.

    Your assets are not under attack, in fact, they have been growing under this president, and will continue with the next. Not that you would notice a few million missing from under your mattress anyways.
     
  7. AhmedFaisal, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  8. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #8
    Neither have I, but it's an excellent point.

    I've never thought of it that way because I don't own a home, and only own a car which doesn't increase in value, so property tax goes down on it each year. But that still applies. I own my car outright. If I lose my job and all sources of income, it's still my car. I own it, Until personal property tax is due December 31st. Then suddenly it's not really my car, it's the state's car, because if I can't pay my property tax, I can't renew my plates, and if I can't renew my plates, I can't legally drive it.

    I paid sales tax on the car which is fair. I pay yearly to renew the plates, which I can live with. I pay gasoline taxes every time I fill up the tank which I don't mind. But personal property tax just bothers me. I'm paying just to own something. What's next? Will we have to start paying personal property taxes on our computers, TVs and phones and other expensive stuff we own? Think of all the money the state could rake in. After all, it's all personal property :rolleyes:
     
  9. AhmedFaisal, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  10. Rampant.A.I. macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    This is an excellent post. We're getting double-taxed all the time, and often don't even realize it. The state charges you to own your own vehicle, operate your own vehicle, charges you tax to put fuel in the vehicle--which is supposed to go to maintaining the roads, but often doesn't--charges you tax when you pay to have the vehicle maintained, and if you're not able to maintain the vehicle you use to get to and from work, then they fine you for not maintaining the vehicle.
     
  11. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #11
    maybe the tax code should be redisigned so people are taxed a low flat rate on their worth, rater than on their income, with elimination of all indirect taxes.
     
  12. AhmedFaisal, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  13. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

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    #13
    I do see a disparity - when you purchase a television or a computer, you're not taxed yearly for them. But when you purchase a house or a vehicle, you are.

    One could argue that vehicle taxes are the cost of driving on public roads. But those taxes don't necessarily go to pay for roads - at least not here.

    Hypothetically - if the state were to do away with property and vehicle taxes - even vehicle maintenance taxes (which we don't have here) and gas taxes (which in SC are some of the lowest in the nation), what would replace that revenue stream? I know vehicle taxes in my particular county pay primarily for schools. Do you have an alternative method of assessing those taxes?

    I think I see the situation as a "necessary evil." I feel like there is a much more pragmatic solution out there, but I somehow doubt there is any sort of political will to even explore that solution.
     
  14. AhmedFaisal, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  15. jnpy!$4g3cwk thread starter macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #15
    No, that would be sales tax. Property tax is a mixed bag. When I had no property, and lived in a tiny apartment for a few hundred bucks a month, my share of the owner's property tax was pretty darn small. Yes, property tax does hurt grandma when property values have risen around her, but, many states have property tax relief for the elderly.

    Back in the good old days, though, the progressive income tax, as I have discussed before, functioned much more as a progressive spending tax. That was before Reagan, and yes, it did work better, as evidenced by the graph posted above. A high rate of investment, GNP growth, and a much more restrained wealthy class. The worst part of today's income inequality is turning on the TV and watching louts like Donald Trump bluster.
     

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