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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Kalns, Feb 12, 2007.
I used to not care at all, until the summer of 2005 when I started listening to NPR regularly and heard about what was going on with the people that were running the country, and I became concerned. I'm really busy with school so I don't keep up with it as much as I'd like, but I do think it is important. There is so much to keep track of though, it's very hard to know what all is going on. But it is crazy to learn all the decisions that are made everyday that most people don't know or care about, but should.
I suggest you take a look at "Children of our age" by Szymborska.
It is beyond me why anybody wouldn't care about politics.
Well how do you define politics? Is it the realm of social action for the betterment of mankind or merely the realm of politicians who will do whatever it takes to get votes?
you're the one who posed the question, what did you mean?
That wasn't your original question... but I think it is both. Politics even refers to how people interact in a company, church, and even their own family. I come from a quasi political family in that you say certain things to make people happy and avoid certain things to make people happy, just like "politicians". I think everyone is responsible for the betterment of mankind. Politics is when the betterment of mankind is attempted to be made law. It is flawed of course, but short of a dictatorship, it's the only way "the people" can rule themselves. That's why everyone should care about politics, but since we (mostly us Americans) are too comfortable, we tend to stop caring.
"Apathy breeds ignorance." ~ William S. Gutek
Again, read Szymborska, she describes politics way better than I can. I believe it is the governance of everything mankind interacts with, even that which is apolitical (read: those who believe poltics does not matter). How that is done is another question, and as everything else, relative. It differs from government/governor to government/governor.
Are you all familiar with the concepts of bubble up and trickle down social systems? If not, Bubble up refers to reaching people on an individual basis and through friendship, love and mutual respect impacting them knowing that they will in turn impact others. Trickle down on the other hand is the concept that you impose laws that cover all of the populace with hopes of forcing them to embrace your viewpoint. I personally believe we'd all be far better served if we focused on the Bubble up method as it tends to have a positive effect on people whereas the trickle down method will inevitably breed anger, hate and division.
why are you trying to change topic all the time?
Focus on the "bubble up" method for what exactly? Politics? That's how most politicians start their career isn't it?
By changing the question all the time I'd say you aren't using the "bubble up" method. I think we'd all get more out of this by narrowing the subject and discussing it in-depth and let that conversation evolve naturally instead of constantly forcing it in new directions.
I don't think I've posted in this forum in at least a couple of months so all the time seems rather unfair. I didn't think there'd be any objection to a somewhat open ended and evolving discussion, but it appears I was wrong. I apologize.
I underestimated the hostility here. I'll leave you as you were then.
I wouldn't consider any of this hostile. I think we were interested in discussing what was to be said, but when the subject changes every other post it discourages communication, IMO.
I thought it was all interrelated. I didn't see any cause for any sort curtness. The reason I left several months ago was because this is a somewhat stress inducing forum. I came back with a sincere desire to engage you all and maybe clear the air on a bit of that, but all I can do is offer my hand. I can't make you offer yours.
I think it may all be interrelated to you, but I don't see one right off. You seemed to ignore what anyone else was saying and then move on to something else without discussing it. I find your bubble up and trickle down idea interesting, but you didn't relate it to what anyone else was saying, therefore it seemed like you were just switching directions. How you do you integrate your ideas of bubble up and trickle down with your own views on politics? I ask because I'm interested.
Well I was trying to get to that but I wanted to make sure everyone understood what I was talking about first. Basically my thoughts are that the trickle down system doesn't work. Particularly in a society as divided as our is. Whatever "laws" are passed, someone loses something in the process. In fact, politics as it exists today is essentially a war of conquest whereby each side battles the other for as much territory as possible.
This is why I do keep up with the news and do engage in social issues that don't involve acting to the detriment of another fellow man, but I am continually trying to remove myself from politics so I can truly say that I'm apolitical.
My primary interest is seeing broken hearts restored and people imprisoned by fear and other past wounds set free. I believe that by changing the way we interact with one another on an individual basis is the greatest good that we can do. Granted we may not see the seeds of that come to fruitition, but they are there, and they are growing.
It's just hard right now to be able to make changes without being political. I don't know if he'll be able to follow through or not, but Obama said something about how he hasn't been in Washington long, but long enough to know that things need to change. I'd say he's a prime example of "bubbling up".
Our system of government is very interesting, and I think the founding fathers would roll in their graves if they knew what was going on. Our government supported unsustainable growth for too long (relying on cheap oil for one thing) and we are not going to be able to continue like this forever. We think we are too smart and our technology is too great for something like the great depression to happen again, but I see it coming, and a lot sooner than we think.
I think people generally view the world becoming a better place. I think if we knew all the back room deals, what we were doing to the environment, the level of apathy and ignorance, we'd see the world is on a slippery slope that needs a change of direction soon. Never have humans been so able to destroy the world so easily than we are in a position to do right now.
I know, my view is a little grim, but I'm also tired and I have to get up early tomorrow morning...
Then why didn't you start a thread about that?
Kains has made it clear in the past that political systems are at best, a nuisance, and at worst totally evil. What's more, they should be replaced by religion and personal responsibility.
He/she is only here to stir up the pot, not create any meaningful dialogue.
Adrian, I would very much agree that apathy and ignorance are HUGE issues today and not just in the US, but worldwide. Underlying that though I notice a current of animosity which is never beneficial save for the momentary satisfaction of the agressor. but that's not really a benefit at all, merely a perceived one.
Pseudobrit, if I've offended in my manner of posting then I apologize.
Please don't be so quick to judge me. Grant me the grace to give me the benefit of the doubt. If I've done some wrong in this thread then please tell me and I'll apologize to you personally for it. Otherwise, please grant me the degree of respect you would any other person.
Now kids, play nice. It's nice to see kalns back after a long absence.
Now, I wish I didn't have to care about politics, but unfortunately it's necessary.
It's not offensive, it's just odd. I mean, if I click on a thread about a broad and open-ended subject like, say, the economy, and I see the OP immediately steering the thread to the paradox of thrift, I'd have been a little puzzled as to the intentions and/or tact.
Well I am an odd one yes. Forgive me my eccentricity of discussion then.
Of course. And I agree with your Bubble Up model.