Why don't the LGBT take their own advice?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LIVEFRMNYC, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #1
    This doesn't apply to all the LGBT, but from interacting with plenty of gays and the media, it seems that many gays are hell bent on outing other gays that are in the closet.

    People of the LGBT community will be the first ones to tell you "My sexuality is none of your business". So why do they care if other gays reveal themselves or not?

    Straight people seem to have the same fascination of outing or assuming too, but I would think the LGBT community would know better. Some gays I've known actually get mad at those that don't reveal their sexuality.

    Although I'm 100% straight. My interaction with gay people/community has been plentiful, due to some family members and previous work. So although I stated, not all are like this, I've noticed this is something that's very common with LGBT people.

    I'm just curious as to why? As the gays I know give me stupid answers like "because, that being fake", "just be yourself", and etc. None which justifies caring about someone else's sexuality and sometimes getting pissed off when they don't reveal it.
     
  2. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #2
    Well either you're interacting with two groups of people in the GLBT community or just happen to know people with double standards.

    I'm not gay either, but imagine some within the community see it as a disservice to their population to hide in the dark. If they're hiding their sexual identities they are doing a disservice to te population they represent.

    I don't believe anyone should have to hide their identity out of shame or embarrassment. That said, I don't think they she be shamed into sharing their sexual preferences. If everyone minded their own business in the first place the world would be a much better place.
     
  3. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #3
    Gay used to be the love that dare not speak it's name. Now it's the love that won't shut-up.
     
  4. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #4
    Why do some people have to always point out that they aren't gay when discussing gays, even in an anonymous forum? " Hey I got nothing against the gays, I'm 100% straight as an arrow by the way...."
     
  5. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

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    #5
    I made a note that I'm not gay, simply cause I'm asking and making an observation from an outsider's point of view.
     
  6. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #6
    I love the way posters feel the need to clarify they're 100% straight on any discussion about LGBT
     
  7. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #7
    Well on numerous occasions I have seen opponents of gay marriage claim that only gays support its legalization.
     
  8. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    This is purely anecdotal and just your experience. Depending on who I'm talking to I'll either refer to my partner as he or use gender neutral pronouns. It makes me feel sad and guilty that I can't be more open when someone asks if I've got a wife and kids but that's what being brought up in the middle of nowhere does to you.

    With gay people who aren't open about their sexuality, I'd put them into two rough groups -
    People that are in denial
    People who are afraid of physical/emotional abuse from family/friends

    I am vehemently against forcing someone to come out if they are afraid.

    HOWEVER...

    There are plenty of ultra conservative pastors and politicians who rally against gay rights whilst "enjoying the company of men". Outing them, I believe, is fair game.

    http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne
     
  9. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #9
    Well for the record I'm 101% straight, I even have a plaque saying I'm straighter than everyone in my county.

    Could it be that if there are more famous gay people out there, that those scared of coming out have more famous people to look up to who share that part of their life? It's good to have famous people "just like you", regardless of what it is. The normalisation of LGBT stuff, especially in a part of the world where they're discriminated against or harassed by a large number of people, is a pretty good thing. Just my opinion.

    So like I said... I'm 101% straight but maybe LGBT folk want to be able to say what their sexuality is and not get criticised for it, just like how straight people don't get criticised for being straight.
     
  10. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #10
    Are you gay or straight?
    Your post didn't quite make that clear.
     
  11. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #11
    I've at times wondered the same thing.

    I've also wondered why the few who claim to have changed from gay to straight, are seemingly demonized by the LGBT community as liars and traitors. They're more than happy to accept that a previously straight person could become gay, it's easy for them to just claim that they weren't being honest with themselves or were in denial; but when someone who was previously out, and in an openly homosexual relationship suddenly professed a change and marries a member of the opposite sex, well that person is a liar, or at best a bisexual.

    It's a strange observation.

    Oh, and I'm 102% straight
     
  12. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Can I just ask for clarification over what "LGBT community" is? Do you mean anyone who identifies as LGBT? I think you're generalising a bit.

    You're also still thinking about sexuality as binary. If someone is attracted to and has/had relationships with men and women, why do you have to put them in one box or the other? This whole simplistic, binary mentality seems to apply to every thread on PRSI.

    Good vs Bad
    Right vs Wrong
    Left wing vs Right wing
    Gay vs Straight
    etc, etc....

    The world is so much more complex than that.
     
  13. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

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    #13
    The behavior you notice is tribalism. Leaving a heterosexual relationship for a homosexual one is applauded by members of that "tribe"; leaving the tribe is condemned as treason by those who remain. It's the same reason a black person can face exclusion and criticism for voting for the right, or a Christian can face exclusion and criticism for questioning the faith. It's the reason for blind partisanship and loyalty to parties rather than principles. It goes for every political and social issue from all sides of the political spectrum.

    Humans are the same as we were 10,000 years ago; we just fool ourselves into thinking we're more advanced.
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Persecution forces silence, while freedom encourages sound.

    How pitiful that you (and the others who liked your vile statement) hate the sound of freedom.
     
  15. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #15
    Ok, that make sense. But I do think that some people have to point it out because they afraid if they talk about hay rights, people assume they are gay, god forbid! It's the old tom selleck press conference mentality.
     
  16. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

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    #16
    Nothing wrong with that because it provides perspective on where the pov is coming from.
     
  17. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #17
    Really?

    I mean the political and social entity that shames people who are thought to hide their homosexuality, who slanders anyone who claims to have gone from gay to straight, who runs pride festivals across the country, organizes pride centers and LGBTQ clubs on college campuses.

    I have zero problem with festivals, pride centers, and being proud of who you are. But when a double standard exists that says that it's perfectly legitimate to go from claiming straight to gay, but not from gay to straight, I think that's pretty horrible. Especially from the group screaming out that they deserve acceptance and to avoid judgement for who they are and who they love.

    I have a friend/neighbor from my youth who did just this. He was about 3 years older than me, and lived at the far end of my street, but had a sister my age who was a friend when this was happening. He was openly gay for a number of years. He had a boyfriend and did not attempt to hide that fact. But as he neared adulthood he had had some sort of a change; and now for the past 15-20 or so years has been heterosexual (his words). I know he went through a lot of hell from some of the folks he hung around in the gay "scene" (if you will). They called him a liar and a traitor, I'm not sure he has been able to maintain any friendships from his teenage years. Thing is, He's done nothing to them whatsoever, he doesn't speak out against homosexuality, he just goes about his business as a straight man (with a wife and 4 kids BTW). But he's been demonized by the people he considered close friends because he had a change in his sexuality.

    Come to think of it, a similar thing happened to the kid across the street from me growing up. He was systematically abused by a man in our neighborhood over the course of 4 or 5 years. Upon turning 18 he announced he was gay and moved with the man (who also came out as gay) to NYC. 14 years later that "kid" (now an adult of 32) claims to be straight, is married to a woman, and underwent a similar crumbling of the support system he had built in New York. Luckily his family (who he estranged himself from at 18 when they didn't agree with his unwillingness to press charges against his abuser) has welcomed him back and he was able to move back west with his wife and is now doing relatively well.

    I'm not putting anyone into a box; I'm specifically thinking of these two friends of mine, the way they describe themselves and their sexuality, and the venom they've experienced since claiming a change from gay to straight.

    Of course not everybody fits into a box. But am I to assume something about these two people that they claim to no longer be true? That is sort of the whole point that I was speaking out against in the first place.
     
  18. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    I don't deny it for a second. My partner's best friend (he was best man at his wedding) slept with other guys at school and made no secret of it. He's now married with two kids. My aunt also now identifies as a lesbian despite being previously married with three kids.

    (We've had this conversation before btw)

    I'll address the rest when I've finished feeding the cattle.

    In the meantime, in relation to "binary pigeon-holing", have a read of this:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/16/half-young-not-heterosexual/

     
  19. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #19
    I think it is mostly because the arguments for gay marriage being a right are based on the idea that being gay is 100% not a choice. If someone changes from being straight to being gay it is easy enough to say that societal pressures made them hide it before, but that argument doesn't work for someone who changes from gay to straight as in our society it wouldn't make sense for a straight person to pretend to be gay. So in order to make it fit with their worldview where there is no choice involved in becoming gay they have to say that someone who becomes straight after being gay is lying to conform with societal pressures, and still is gay.
     
  20. Artimus12 macrumors 6502

    Artimus12

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    #20
    There's the sound of freedom, and then there's the sound of unsupervised children on a play break. noise needs to be regulated or it becomes ...noisy. There's nothing vile about the statement if the meaning is taken in the correct context.

    You calling people pitiful for voicing an opinion on the matter, as if it's an attempt to bully freedom of speech into silence ...as often seems to be the case with the more anarchic members of the LGBT community.

    "if you can't praise us, shut up! or we'll attack your opinion and anyone that supports it, with vitriolic venom!"
    is that the message you're trying to convey? Because you're response seems very hypocritical in its nature.

    If you look at it from other perspectives, there could be a few more reasons than the two you've mentioned as to why some don't want to profess their sexuality. Some could be because they don't feel the need for the whole world to know their bedtime habits - plain & simple. A lot of people seem to read too much into another's reasons for doing, or not (as the case may be), as the collective would have you do. I fail to see how "outing" anyone against their wishes can be deemed Fair or Just.

    ^This^

    If leaving the Tribe is not an option without possibly significant cost to one's future prospects/happiness, ambiguity on one's current sexual preference can be a smart move.


    ...and just so everyone knows, I am 100% that I am. :)
     
  21. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #21
    I'm not calling people pitiful for voicing an opinion.

    I'm calling them pitiful based on the content of that opinion.

    Those are two different things, entirely.
     
  22. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Or just reinforces that they don't want to be seen the "wrong" way.

    You say tomato, I say tomato.
     
  23. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    There is a difference between standing up in public and shouting "I like having sex with other men" and politely informing someone when asked that your "wife's" name is actually John. Or giving someone a heads up that your partner is in fact another guy before the staff party that significant others are invited to, or building up the guts to introduce your parents to the person you've fallen in love with and intend to be with for the rest of your life.

    The problem with so many people on here is they can't separate sex and sexuality.

    If someone publicly fights against equal rights for people who identify as LGBT or preaches that gays will burn in hell then flaunts photos of their cock around on dating apps, then yes, they should be called out on their hypocrisy.
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #24
    It's surely a mix of the two. But I'd like to think that the desire to show unity outweighs the fear of being lumped in.
     
  25. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #25
    Likely attention whores who maybe have self confidence issues. I work with a lot of people who need constant attention and some type of appreciation shown to them.
     

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