Why is High Sierra so horrible?

Tozovac

macrumors 68000
Jun 12, 2014
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Your ideas are those of a silly Pavlovian dog trained to bark at Apple's command. You are aware that there's been 15% drop in productivity over the last seven years or so in the United States. The direct reason is the endless "moving of the cheese" of these idiot OS manufacturers. Five new versions of Android, seven new version iOS, six new version of Mac OS. For almost zero improvement.

If you were intelligent, you'd just throw away your smartphone. I did. And now I have enough time to requalify myself as a pro photographer in my spare time. It's a hell of a lot more satisfying than updating pointless apps for their even more pointless improvements. Better for your privacy as well. Ironically – as privacy should tumble when making photographs.

It's so sad to see you kool-aid drinking punks fighting to defend Apple as if that stock market price driven behemoth (it was a personal company and a mission with Steve Jobs) could care less about its users at this point as it pumps out non-improvements and $1200 iPhones. What is it with you lot, Stockholm syndrome?
Interesting thread. I’ve complained for seven years now that changes to OS starting with the Fisher Price My First OS-looking Yosemite and the “flat” and all-blue-grey-white changes in OS’s from Windows phone, iOS 7, Windows 10, Material Design, etc. opened the door to a bunch of productivity-backward and efficiency-busting changes that aren’t at all big-picture functionally better but just different to be different. I constantly hear friendly replies at Mac rumors that I am just wrong. I found it funny yesterday when a young engineer “raised with touchscreens and who no longer would need certain visual affordances” (who I assumed would be pretty hip and preferentially receptive to today’s UIx) complained after his work computer was upgraded from windows XP to 10...about how hard it was to understand certain representations due to the lack of “obviousness,” especially the minimal detail amongst the wasted white space, and the poor organization and cures especially in Outlook where he found it cumbersome to differentiate quickly emails that were read and unread.

Exactly.
 
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dc-mjd

macrumors newbie
Sep 7, 2017
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There are many options (features) in that Apple keeps coming out with that I find no use for. But there are others such as APFS, encryption, black screen, continuity, additional ways of finding, tasing files, improved maps, improved photos, and most important improved security that make it worthwhile. I have had no problem with apps not working (other than some really old non 63 bit apps) and general performance is as good or better. However, boot times are slower. The rate of innovation might not be as much as it was before, but after a while most of what can be found is either under the hood or features/optionsthat a lot of people don't want. But even there while I find emoji's to be really stupid, based on the email nd messages I get, some people must love them.
 

smirking

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2003
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I'm not a huge fan of emojis myself, but they're a very useful feature for people who aren't good with words. I use them sparingly and have to remind myself that sometimes an emoji instead of five more sentences would actually get my point across better.

It's not an age thing either. My 75 year old mother is one of the heavier users of emojis I know.

A lot of the features that get released from year to year might be ridiculous to some people, but they're critical features for others.
 

foliovision

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2008
39
28
Bratislava
A lot of the features that get released from year to year might be ridiculous to some people, but they're critical features for others.
Great, we all have to suffer with slow unreliable OS so that Smirking's mother can use emojis everywhere. What IT planet hell have I landed on where Apple disciples invent a new excuse every day for poor performance and bad behaviour from their Golden Calf.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2009
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720
Interesting thread. I’ve complained for seven years now that changes to OS starting with the Fisher Price My First OS-looking Yosemite and the “flat” and all-blue-grey-white changes in OS’s from Windows phone, iOS 7, Windows 10, Material Design, etc. opened the door to a bunch of productivity-backward and efficiency-busting changes that aren’t at all big-picture functionally better but just different to be different. I constantly hear friendly replies at Mac rumors that I am just wrong. I found it funny yesterday when a young engineer “raised with touchscreens and who no longer would need certain visual affordances” (who I assumed would be pretty hip and preferentially receptive to today’s UIx) complained after his work computer was upgraded from windows XP to 10...about how hard it was to understand certain representations due to the lack of “obviousness,” especially the minimal detail amongst the wasted white space, and the poor organization and cures especially in Outlook where he found it cumbersome to differentiate quickly emails that were read and unread.

Exactly.
What I've noticed is that the OS (starting around MacOS Fisher Price) is that OS updates went from small, quickly applied "patches" to multi-gig, 45 minute installs that greatly resemble the reinstallation of the ENTIRE OS.
 
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maverick28

macrumors 6502
Mar 14, 2014
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Obviously I won't be using 10.8 for security reasons
I'd recommend you stop worrying about security – I run Lion and Mavericks without any security problems. Think about this: in the Apple's world, the majority of users run 2 last operating systems, so it makes sense for attackers to focus most of their efforts on those systems: older systems would likely get a lenient attitude. Also, the security race is endless and not worth being taken into consideration when making a judgement on what software you'd personally prefer. Bad actors with uncountable resources would easily take over your computer no matter how Apple or others would try to convince they have your back etc. Also, bear in mind that even if you magically succeeded in erecting the most unbreachable stronghold of defence ever conceived against omnipresent tech industry corps then your government and multitudes of private companies you've dealt with on a daily basis can easily identify and locate you, your residence location, your personal data and so on: your personal code as well as license no, social insurance is baked tightly in administrative registers from the moment you've been born.

As for the subject of performance: many tasks in Lion/Mavericks, as well as animations, especially window transitions between states, are much smoother, whereas in High Sierra they stutter and falter. However for a 6 y.o. model (relative to the active development cycle of High Sierra which was 2017/18 yy) the performance is very robust and easy, however, I noticed that it runs hotter so even if not for fan control utilities such as iStat Menus, I wouldn't be so sure my Mac would not experience less tolerance to overheat. I spend little time in High Sierra and have it for a newer version of FCPX. I really got hooked to Split View, I have to admit, however, 90% of its features is present in Mavericks. Seriously, most of my work can easily be done in a very old OS X like Lion. Mavericks could be considered my personal Windows 7 Service Pack 3 – long-running and reliable. Typing these words from Firefox Legacy on Lion.
 
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madrich

macrumors 6502
Feb 19, 2012
430
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World Class City of Chicago
I'd recommend you stop worrying about security – I run Lion and Mavericks without any security problems. Think about this: in the Apple's world, the majority of users run 2 last operating systems, so it makes sense for attackers to focus most of their efforts on those systems: older systems would likely get a lenient attitude. Also, the security race is endless and not worth being taken into consideration when making a judgement on what software you'd personally prefer. Bad actors with uncountable resources would easily take over your computer no matter how Apple or others would try to convince they have your back etc. Also, bear in mind that even if you magically succeeded in erecting the most unbreachable stronghold of defence ever conceived against omnipresent tech industry corps then your government and multitudes of private companies you've dealt with on a daily basis can easily identify and locate you, your residence location, your personal data and so on: your personal code as well as license no, social insurance is baked tightly in administrative registers from the moment you've been born.

As for the subject of performance: many tasks in Lion/Mavericks, as well as animations, especially window transitions between states, are much smoother, whereas in High Sierra they stutter and falter. However for a 6 y.o. model (relative to the active development cycle of High Sierra which was 2017/18 yy) the performance is very robust and easy, however, I noticed that it runs hotter so even if not for fan control utilities such as iStat Menus, I wouldn't be so sure my Mac would not experience less tolerance to overheat. I spend little time in High Sierra and have it for a newer version of FCPX. I really got hooked to Split View, I have to admit, however, 90% of its features is present in Mavericks. Seriously, most of my work can easily be done in a very old OS X like Lion. Mavericks could be considered my personal Windows 7 Service Pack 3 – long-running and reliable. Typing these words from Firefox Legacy on Lion.
I agree with you about security. I was on El Capitan until last week when I finally upgraded to Mojave because my iPhone and iPad were orphaned from my MBAir.
 
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colourfastt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2009
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IOS seem to be going the other way around 13.2.1?
I started with my first Macs in 2008 (MacBook Pro & iMac), so I started with 10.5, and what I noticed that was unlike Windows the OS X updates were small and quick to install with VERY rare reboots. Now, every "update" is multiple gigs and requires a 45+ minute reboot. It's really sad that OS X has turned into the very thing I got away from. (And don't get me started on the look of OS X Fisher Price ... I'm still PO'd after all this time.)

edit: just after posting this I checked to see if there were any OS updates; yes, a 1.55G one ... so, here's to wasting an hour while a "security patch" reinstalls my entire OS.
 
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foliovision

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2008
39
28
Bratislava
Don't pick on my mom, bro.
Don't bring your mother into the conversation then. It was a stupid argument from yet another person too lazy to learn to express themselves with words. I'd say it's Return to Planet of the Apes, except in Charlton Heston's universe the apes were intelligent and could express themselves verbally.

I spend little time in High Sierra and have it for a newer version of FCPX. I really got hooked to Split View, I have to admit, however, 90% of its features is present in Mavericks. Seriously, most of my work can easily be done in a very old OS X like Lion. Mavericks could be considered my personal Windows 7 Service Pack 3 – long-running and reliable.
Very similar story. I'd be entirely happy in El Capitan for everything if it weren't for FCPX and Davinci Resolve and the graphic cards they require. Given the price I've paid in nuisance time, I'd have been better to settle for whatever versions work in El Capitan and the graphic cards which support Retina on that OS. I loathe Mojave even after trying The tentacles of Apple's App Store, iCloud and generally phoning home to perform even a dictionary lookup. But then again, Snow Leopard was fine for me until there was no third party app support for my photo applications.

SilentKnight-before-after-OSX-ElCapitan.png


SilentKnight is all you need to keep your security functionality up to date on an older Mac. I found that my Mojave install was not getting all the updates as I was blocking Apple phoning home. I disabled the restrictive Little Snitch profile and ran SilentKnight and bang, everything was up to date.

You do need to allow Apple to download the files (which I had disabled, as I thought they'd be system updates and not security updates).
SilentKnight-App-Store-Preferences-El-Capitan.png

I also used this terminal script when downloads weren't coming fast enough. Not sure if you need it:

Code:
sudo softwareupdate –d --background
Be very careful with those EFI updates and 10.14.6 updates, they can damage a lot of functionality and the path back is very difficult.
 

smirking

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2003
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Don't bring your mother into the conversation then. It was a stupid argument from yet another person too lazy to learn to express themselves with words. I'd say it's Return to Planet of the Apes, except in Charlton Heston's universe the apes were intelligent and could express themselves verbally.
Ok. I apologize for suggesting you were insulting my mom. That was small of me. You were actually insulting me and I wasn't man enough to admit I didn't like you taking a swipe at me. So, what did I say that warranted an insult?

I merely said that as reviled as emojis are to some people, it's actually really useful to others.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2009
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Ok. I apologize for suggesting you were insulting my mom. That was small of me. You were actually insulting me and I wasn't man enough to admit I didn't like you taking a swipe at me. So, what did I say that warranted an insult?

I merely said that as reviled as emojis are to some people, it's actually really useful to others.
I'll go with reviled. It's appears as if the language is devolving back to pictographs. Soon we'll be on par with the written "language" of the ancient Egyptians.
 
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smirking

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Aug 31, 2003
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I'll go with reviled. It's appears as if the language is devolving back to pictographs. Soon we'll be on par with the written "language" of the ancient Egyptians.
I loathe that style of emoji use myself, but I don't blame Apple for people "writing" in that manner. For lots of those people, if they weren't committing style crimes with emojis, they'd be murdering written language with walls of exclamation points and generous substitutions of "loosing" for "losing". Those of us who go way back probably even know of a certain person who was the original annoying emoji-holic: the person who started and ended virtually every sentence with some variant of an ASCII smiley. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)!!!

On the other hand, I do find emojis to be very useful when used sparingly to highlight important pieces of information or as an alternate type of shortform when screen space is extremely constrained.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2009
904
720
I loathe that style of emoji use myself, but I don't blame Apple for people "writing" in that manner. For lots of those people, if they weren't committing style crimes with emojis, they'd be murdering written language with walls of exclamation points and generous substitutions of "loosing" for "losing". Those of us who go way back probably even know of a certain person who was the original annoying emoji-holic: the person who started and ended virtually every sentence with some variant of an ASCII smiley. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)!!!

On the other hand, I do find emojis to be very useful when used sparingly to highlight important pieces of information or as an alternate type of shortform when screen space is extremely constrained.
I don't blame Apple either; it is just filling what it perceives as a need. I do blame, however, society as a whole.
 
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avz

macrumors 6502a
Oct 7, 2018
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I'll go with reviled. It's appears as if the language is devolving back to pictographs. Soon we'll be on par with the written "language" of the ancient Egyptians.
What's wrong with the written "language" of the ancient Egyptians? And where would US be right now without the conceptual knowledge of the ancient Egyptians?

I installed High Sierra on an SD card and all things considered it seems to be running quite well.