Why is it sexist to talk over a woman?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Zombie Acorn, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #1
    Ive been seeing articles flutter about saying that talking over women or interrupting a woman gives them flashbacks of being overruled at work etc, and this makes the person sexist. Wouldn't it be the case that a man who didn't interrupt or talk over another woman simply because she is a woman would be discriminating?

    Personally I'd expect to interact with men and women equally, im not going to take it easy on someone just because they are a woman.

    This seems to me to be another "we want to be equal, but lower the bar for us" situation like military/police/fire trials.
     
  2. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I guess it is because men never interrupt other men.
     
  3. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #3
    I think it is historical in nature. I agree with you that it isn't sexist now. But, there was a time where women were not supposed to speak their mind, particularly in public. So a man trying to shut down a women by speaking over her reminds people of that. Either way it's rude and ill mannered and doesn't look good.
     
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Not as much "lowering the bar" but "We want to be equal but want special treatment".

    If nothing else, if she's white, she can still resort to "white privilege" as a magical thinking catch-all.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 27, 2016 ---
    Yes, such shouting and speaking over people is rarely anything but ill-mannered unless there's a really great reason.

    The past is meaningless if people want "equality" as opposed to "apologize but still treat us special". If society wants to move forward, isn't a reset button going to do better than the vain and fake tokenism going on nowadays?
     
  5. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #5
    In my experience, it is women who talk over men and other women overwhelmingly.
     
  6. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #6
    You have experience with women? ;)
     
  7. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #7
    You must have never seen Boris Epshteyn shilling for Trump then. He talks over everyone. Far worse than Trump. He is truly the rudest person I have ever seen in this regard.
     
  8. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #8
    Your OP is sexist, because it triggers me, which means that it's also racist.

    And I can't remember what the issue is. But that doesn't matter because Donald Trump's tax returns.
     
  9. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #9
    It's not sexist. It's just being a hole of the assular variety.
     
  10. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #10
    It's not sexist.

    I've come to the following conclusion. People who see sexism, racism, etc everywhere and talk about it online have very swallow empty lives. They compensate for this by creating social justice campaigns to rail against and thus feel important.

    If you can't do anything that really matters create an injustice that doesn't really exist and fix it. Essentially it's high brow trolling.
     
  11. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #11
    This stuff comes from stereotypes, confirmation bias, and singularity in reasoning. Sometimes people interrupt you because they're *******s or they're just oblivious.
     
  12. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #12
    I'm not a limp-wristed beta, so it's quite easy actually. Women love real men, not sissies.
     
  13. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #13
    everyone knows what type of person you are if you say alpha and beta in that context
     
  14. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #14
    This. Perhaps people do talk over women because they're women, but generally they might do it to anyone. It could easily be a character defect, and the person they're talking over doesn't matter regardless...
     
  15. Scepticalscribe, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #15
    Because firstly, historically, women have been confined to the private space, and have not had the right to have a voice. In anything.

    Legally, they were property, theologically they were The Other, economically they were powerless, and without agency. Politically, the public space was denied to them. Much of the time, women had little or no say in who they married, or in when they married.

    This means that - also historically - their views are not considered to be of any importance or of equal worth to those of the sort of men who were more powerful than they were.

    More recently, I doubt that there is a woman who has not been on the receiving end of the very tedious, and downright tiresome practice of 'mansplaining', which - to my mind (and I write as a seasoned veteran of such meetings, and would class myself a skilled skirmisher, accomplished speaker, not to say a meticulous verbal assassin - for, or course, judiciously placed words can be exceedingly effective and very, very wounding) is far worse than speaking over someone.

    Indeed, sometimes, even expressing views - any views - in any public forum (on Twitter, TV, radio or elsewhere) women will often find their very voice attacked in purely physical terms, which focusses on the tone in order to dismiss or ignore the content.

    Thus, their voices - when heard - have often been described and dismissed in derogatory terms which pretend a faux objectivity: Words such as 'shrill', 'cackling', 'screech', 'vocal fry', 'up-speak' are all casually used to dismiss and denigrate the very sound of women's voices.

    By focussing on the physical aspect of women's voices, it becomes easier to dismiss or simply ignore what they actually have to say, or may wish to contribute.

    Er, what does this incomprehensible clichéd drivel actually mean? What on earth is 'a limp wristed beta'? I thought these puerile and petty insults went out of fashion with the repeal of DADT.
     
  16. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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  17. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #17
    No.

    Rather, it is the oldest, and deepest rooted form of structural discrimination that exists.
     
  18. AngerDanger macrumors 68030

    AngerDanger

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    #18
    Dismissing discrimination with a… 20 second video of two people running at each other. :rolleyes: 1st world laziness.
     
  19. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #19
    In my experience women who speak over men or who interject passion into their speaking are described as 'shrill', whereas as men who do the comparable behaviour are described as 'leaders', 'forceful', 'formidable', etc. Also, women who call out the rude behaviour of men interrupting them tend to be called 'shrill' as well.

    Anecdotes and personal experience aside, available evidence from psychology and the social sciences suggests that women are interrupted more than men (a good overview can be found at this link).
     
  20. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Or create the NRA....
     
  21. Huntn, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    At a minimum it shows a lack of respect, a lack of manners, or is indicative of a personality fault. For Mr. FantAstic, all seem to apply.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 28, 2016 ---
    Forceful vs shrill is definitely in sexist territory, a sexual double standard. A perception that as the strong one, this is not only my ability, but my right. I remember hearing a woman pilot transmit on the radio , and the fairly common male thought actually responded "another empty kitchen". Thankfully in aviation, those days seem to be passed, but I imagine they are still heard in any male dominated profession when threatened by a woman.
     
  22. Gypsy36 macrumors regular

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    #22
    I don't think the over talking is sexist per-say rather I think it is behaviour indicative of those who have sexist views. But it certainly isn't exclusively in their purview.
     
  23. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #23
    Early forms of slavery were incredibly racist, yielding an arguably higher variance in treatment if split along racial lines than you would encounter based on gender. You already know what I think of hypocritical feminist euphemisms such as "mansplaining", so I won't go further into that.

    He watched too much Twilight. Now he wants to start his own wolf pack. The jokes write themselves when people try describe themselves this way. I've never personally felt the need to defend my manliness on the internet.
     
  24. Scepticalscribe, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #24
    My point is that gender is the oldest and most enduring form of discrimination still practiced.

    Of course, other forms of structural discrimination exist - race and ethnicity is the obvious one, though religion and language and otter cultural signifiers are also used to differentiate - and discriminate - between people and to deny some groups rights on the basis of the fact that they are defined by what they are and this is used to deprive them of basic rights. Class - social class - is another form where distinctions and differences are reinforced by sustained and systemic discrimination.

    And, sometimes several forms of discrimination an be used against one person - let us just say that the life chances available to women born to poor black families are considerably less than some of us have enjoyed.

    Re 'mansplaining', I make no apology for mentioning it.

    Moreover, it is not 'hypocritical' to point out than a surprising number of women who are expert in - qualified in, and have developed considerable expertise and are vastly experienced in particular fields still get talked down to - in the areas where they are expert - by witless morons who think that because they are male they are - by definition - more knowledgeable in any such area.

    These days, I generally give such clowns short shrift.

    I lack the patience to school fools, and mentor morons, and, as I am no longer in the classroom, where I was very tolerant of students and their questions, it is not my job to educate them. Instead, I cut across them. Briskly.

    If they are expert in a field where I am not, I listen and learn, and ask interested questions. However, I have little tolerance for condescending and patronising lectures from (male) idiots - who simply and solely because they are male loftily assume a superior knowledge of what is under discussion - on topics where my knowledge and experience vastly exceeds theirs. Fortunately, these days, that tends to happen less.
     
  25. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #25
    i have to say in early high school i was somewhat guilty of this. not that i interrupted but i had those thoughts definitely. pretty shameful. in any case my parents actually told me not to approach things like that before i went to college. it was weird having them both talk to me so i took it more seriously. i can say i probably would not made as diverse friends (most of them women) in college without that realization
     

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