Why is the American Dream dead in the South?

jnpy!$4g3cwk

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There is a challenging little article in the Atlantic on socioeconomic mobility. The article is small, but, if the data is valid, it is a direct challenge to the conservative ideology we see posted here, and, wherever the conservative news machine is operating. The point being: mobility is much, much lower in the South than in all those more Liberal states that are constantly criticized by conservatives. Following the conservative-libertarian ideology, many Southern states make unionization hard, unions easy to ignore, reduced state-level taxes, lower regulation enforcement as much as possible, and, therefore, social mobility should be improved. Right --- ?



http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/why-is-the-american-dream-dead-in-the-south/283313/

The above is absolute mobility, the below graphic is relative mobility:



If I were living in a low-socioeconomic-mobility locale, I would consider moving.

The two articles are here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/why-is-the-american-dream-dead-in-the-south/283313/

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-geography-of-the-american-dream/283308/
 
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Zombie Acorn

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High school graduation rates mirror about the same states. If you don't have a high school diploma good luck with social mobility.

The south also doesn't have a wall street or silicon valley to attract people.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 11, 2010
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Here is an old map of HS graduation. Found on the "We Party" website. You are correct in that it does have a certain amount of "visual correlation":



I don't know anything about the "We Party" other than it appears to be a pro-labor website. Website here:

http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Free- free to be taken advantage of, to funnel money to the fat cats, to be ignored, and to be poor. We don't want no stink'n government in there looking out for us, better to be "free".
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
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Why is the American Dream dead in the South?

Let's just cut to the cusp of the problem.

The South is dead from the neck up.

And I'm sure that suits some very well.
 

Sydde

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Aug 17, 2009
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Let's just cut to the cusp of the problem.

The South is dead from the neck up.

And I'm sure that suits some very well.
Honestly, I think that is a bit unfair. I will go out on a limb and say that there are thousands of people in the South who are intelligent, witty, kind, pleasant, even progressive. Hell we have at least one poster living in the south (localoid) who is rather obviously not "dead from the neck up", it is for people like him that we are concerned about southern-rot and the damage it might do to the decent folk who have to slog through it.
 

Ugg

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Apr 7, 2003
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Based on your graph of relative mobility, it seems like you should consider changing the thread title to "Why is the American Dream dead in the East?"
Ohio, Indiana and Illinois seem to be worse off than the East.
 

iJohnHenry

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Mar 22, 2008
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Honestly, I think that is a bit unfair. I will go out on a limb and say that there are thousands of people in the South who are intelligent, witty, kind, pleasant, even progressive. Hell we have at least one poster living in the south (localoid) who is rather obviously not "dead from the neck up", it is for people like him that we are concerned about southern-rot and the damage it might do to the decent folk who have to slog through it.
How is it you equate "the South" with individuals?

Individuals with merit have always risen to the top of the food chain.

The problem with the South is that the opportunities to do so are less than stellar.

Texas appears to disagree. If you mean "Deep South" then I'm not sure this statement is all that controversial.
I did, but Texas also has a share of 'entrenchment' going on.
 
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Ugg

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I think it's because much of the South is still living in the 18th and 19th century.
I think it's a combination of religious fundamentalism, chronically underfunded schools and healthcare, and yes, a belief that the poor should know their place based on pre civil war attitudes in the south.
 

kupkakez

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Apr 4, 2011
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High school graduation rates mirror about the same states. If you don't have a high school diploma good luck with social mobility.

The south also doesn't have a wall street or silicon valley to attract people.
Austin, TX is pretty much a mini silicon valley...which is what attracted me to the city. Then again a lot of people don't consider Texas "the south".
 

Josh125

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Apr 28, 2008
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Texas appears to disagree. If you mean "Deep South" then I'm not sure this statement is all that controversial.
As a resident of Texas I'm surprised to see you refer to it as a Southern state. From all accounts Texans do not affiliate themselves with the South.

Austin and DFW are tech hubs and Houston is obviously the oil & gas capital of the world. As an aside, large cities in Texas are very much progressive. Houston's mayor recently married her long time same sex partner and no one batted an eye. If you get out of the cities, then sure it's backwards.
 

Zombie Acorn

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Austin, TX is pretty much a mini silicon valley...which is what attracted me to the city. Then again a lot of people don't consider Texas "the south".
I personally don't consider Texas to be included when I talk about the "south". It also doesn't seem to be impacted as badly as other deep south states.
 

SoAnyway

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May 10, 2011
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I think it's because much of the South is still living in the 18th and 19th century.
I think it's a combination of religious fundamentalism, chronically underfunded schools and healthcare, and yes, a belief that the poor should know their place based on pre civil war attitudes in the south.

That's certainly putting it more eloquently. Just keep in mind that the people in those regions probably don't understand half the words you used, let alone words with more than two syllables. Hence, why I used as little words as possible. ;)
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
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That's certainly putting it more eloquently. Just keep in mind that the people in those regions probably don't understand half the words you used, let alone words with more than two syllables. Hence, why I used as little words as possible. ;)
Humorous, but I mildly disagree with that approach.

I find it akin to talking baby-talk to wee ones. Talk to them as you would an adult, and you will enhance their development.

For the adults you encompass, if they are reading on a computer they will eventually be curious enough to learn what the word means.

Win win.
 

colourfastt

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Apr 7, 2009
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As a resident of Texas I'm surprised to see you refer to it as a Southern state. From all accounts Texans do not affiliate themselves with the South.

Austin and DFW are tech hubs and Houston is obviously the oil & gas capital of the world. As an aside, large cities in Texas are very much progressive. Houston's mayor recently married her long time same sex partner and no one batted an eye. If you get out of the cities, then sure it's backwards.
After living in Tx and currently living in Louisiana and spending a lot of time in Tx, Texans don't affiliate themselves with the United States .. to them it is solely the Republic of Texas.
 

Moyank24

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Aug 31, 2009
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As a resident of Texas I'm surprised to see you refer to it as a Southern state. From all accounts Texans do not affiliate themselves with the South.

Austin and DFW are tech hubs and Houston is obviously the oil & gas capital of the world. As an aside, large cities in Texas are very much progressive. Houston's mayor recently married her long time same sex partner and no one batted an eye. If you get out of the cities, then sure it's backwards.
As a native New Yorker, I always considered Texas the South. Now living in Houston, native Texans always correct me when I call it the south. I'm not sure why it's a big deal but apparently it is.

I think one of the reasons that the large cities (Houston and Austin more so than Dallas) are as "progressive" as they are is because there are large populations of non natives here. In Houston, the medical center (in addition to the oil industry) has brought many transplants. Obama even won Houston (by a few votes IIRC).

The Houston GOP is a little bitter about the lesbian mayor, but overall it hasn't been that much of a big deal.
 

Zombie Acorn

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As a native New Yorker, I always considered Texas the South. Now living in Houston, native Texans always correct me when I call it the south. I'm not sure why it's a big deal but apparently it is.

I think one of the reasons that the large cities (Houston and Austin more so than Dallas) are as "progressive" as they are is because there are large populations of non natives here. In Houston, the medical center (in addition to the oil industry) has brought many transplants. Obama even won Houston (by a few votes IIRC).

The Houston GOP is a little bitter about the lesbian mayor, but overall it hasn't been that much of a big deal.
Watch a few episodes of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo and you will see why no one would willingly associate themselves with that area of the country.