Why Japan's conviction rate is 99%

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LIVEFRMNYC, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #1
    Wow, I never knew their legal system was like that. :eek:

     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Interesting video. One aspect that sounds attractive is using judges instead of juries. Having served on a jury, it left me wanting for a more professional and dispassionate group deciding upon guilt or innocence. While I can understand that each system has its pros and cons, this is one aspect of the justice system that seems somewhat obvious to me—that professionals are more adept at their job than amateurs, and that the jury system may not be the best way to decide these matters.
     
  3. pdqgp macrumors 68020

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    sounds like they get to the point and don't mess around. US has a lot to learn.
     
  4. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

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    I'm 50/50 on that. If the judges are completely unbiased and not manipulated by politics, then I agree. But if it's the other way around, I want a jury.
     
  5. Renzatic Suspended

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    The being held for 28 days with only limited access to a lawyer is straight up BS. As the story demonstrates, you can get anyone to admit to anything if you put constant pressure on them for a long enough period of time.
     
  6. dec. Suspended

    dec.

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    In the US I'd probably have to prefer a jury, in any civilized country I'd rather go with a judge.
     
  7. pdqgp macrumors 68020

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    seems to work in terms of keeping crime down though..... ;)
     
  8. Renzatic Suspended

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    Which would you prefer? A fast, super efficient justice system, or rights?
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Agreed. I can live with panels of judges instead of juries, but you shouldn't go one day without access to a lawyer ... much less 28.
     
  10. Renzatic Suspended

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    I can see the logic in believing judges should weigh evidence and decide the verdict. Thing is, the jury system is set up as a bulwark against the possibility of judicial corruption and bias. The last thing you want are the people running the system gaming it to their own advantage when they're suddenly faced with politically inconvenient cases.

    So I'd say take the happy medium. Allow the accused to choose between having a trial decided by judges, or by a jury of their peers.
     
  11. MikeyMike01, Dec 12, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2015

    MikeyMike01 macrumors 6502

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    99% is a serious problem, no matter how you slice it. It either means an incredibly high number of innocent convictions or an incredibly high number of unprosecuted guilty persons.

    Given the appalling levels of corruption and oppression in Japan's legal system, it's pretty obvious that it's the former.

    Biggest mystery is why the people of Jaoan tolerate such systemic injustice.
     
  12. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    So much for jury nullification or jury selection. So much for high-priced lawyers arguing infinitesimal details of vague laws that other lawyers write in order to drive up legal fees, regardless whether you win or lose. Lawyers are second to weather reporters who get paid whether they deliver a satisfactory result or not.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

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    I don't understand how you come away with a positive feeling after watching that video or wanting to implement anything from their system.
     
  14. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    I imagine the Left would be loving this because it ensures part of a utopian existence — that few would dare to do anything wrong because they don’t want to be put before that kind of court, and that jail over there is truly jail.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    The opening of the video provides some reasons ...
    • Japan is a remarkably safe society
    • Crime rates are low
    • Japan incarcerates far fewer of its citizens (U.S. rate is ~14.5 times higher)
    • emphasis on rehabilitation
    • low recidivism rates
    And what's not mentioned in the video ... cost savings.

    Screen Shot 2015-12-13 at 6.38.30 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2015-12-13 at 6.38.08 AM.png
    http://www.heuni.fi/material/attachments/heuni/papers/6KtlkZMtL/HEUNI_papers_20.pdf
     
  16. NT1440 macrumors G4

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    He's looking for the right kind of authoritarianism.
     
  17. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

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    This has nothing to do with their court system and everything to do with the society that lives there, it's one of the most homogenous societies on the face of the earth. Along with that, a strong work ethic, focus on education, and strong families, everything that the US lacks.

    Import Urban areas like Baltimore along with some trailer parks and they would have the same issues that we have.
     
  18. hiddenmarkov, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015

    hiddenmarkov macrumors 6502a

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    This really. I live in Japan. I have known that 1% (based on stat given) that was no conviction. Wrong place, wrong time....into the Japanese system he went. Edit: for people like me, SOFA/military related if US authorities detain us first...we go back to base and legal issues worked with us under SOFA protect, basically in the care of the military and not Japanese jail. If JP's get us first.....they get first dibs as it were and its on base to broker a deal for release to the US system again.


    Basic summary was neighborhood was having breaks ins. Gaijin in the hood....well has to be him, right? Complications from alibi not panning out right away. Girlfriend (he was coming back from visiting) not corroborating story as it would put her on the hook with her father. Father who would not be 100% thrilled about the American boyfriend revelation on a good day (been there, it can be meet the parents first time feelings to levels I have no words for, it has to be experienced to understand really) . A revelation in criminal proceedings not the way to smooth that over a mild understatement.

    His stay mildly shorter than max only because he was military and it pressed to either get some proof of misdeed, work out a deal to get him back to a base to work that prosecution aspect or lets not drag this out and work another deal to get our boy back.

    As tied to the 99% conviction rate is the sad fact of weeks of bad cop/badder cop....you can get forced confessions. Old boy I knew completely innocent said that piece of paper they dangled to make things all better (and admit his fault in the matter) looked real tempting. This after 15 days.
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    The two are inextricably linked. The courts are a reflection of society and have in turn helped to shape and influence society. But I'm not suggesting that it would be a good idea if we plugged their system into the U.S., or that we'd see the same results. I don't believe that would happen. But I do believe is that we can learn something from their experience.
     
  20. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    The Netherlands also has a no jury criminal legal system, base on the Code Napoleon from 1811.



    Court cases here are mostly screened from the media, so no OJ Simpson circus.

    Even the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, it was still just a daily update on the main news broadcast.
    Justice must be seen to be done, but it's not entertainment.




    Because guilt or innocence is decided on points of law and facts, and not emotions it does seem more clinical.

    There are still however mistakes made no system is 100% correct.



    The General public here normally moan when a defendant gets sentenced in their eyes to leniently.

    But the same General public are very happy when they see cases like Memphis Three or Birmingham Six, and they know emotions played a very big role in getting those convictions.


    Unlike Japan we have nothing like a 99% conviction rate, but then again if you see that the Japanese only go into court proceedings if it’s a 100% strong case. Japan drops any case that they deem not 100% winnable.
     
  21. pdqgp macrumors 68020

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    evidently Japan prefers what keeps crime down and aren't willing to compromise. It's pretty clear that in the US we prefer to accept casualties of higher numbers for the sake of what we feel is right. Thus the trade off that Japan is perhaps not interested in.

    Where I stand is closer to where they are but not all the way over. I think the US System is broken because we've take all that is good too far over to the other side.
     
  22. FieldingMellish, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015

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    American defense lawyers like Saul and jury nullification make a mockery and let criminals roam the streets. If the American left feels there are too many blacks and Hispanics in jail, they relax standards and make it hard to catch and convict, along with periodic letting convicts loose on the public. And one thing you won't see in Japan are America's so-called sanctuary cities. Within which we had that case of Katie Steinle cut down dead by a multiply-caught and let loose illegal alien Mexican felon. I heard that you will not find any mosques anywhere in Japan, something to be verified.
     
  23. Happybunny, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015

    Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    I must say your posts are quite telling you, and some other posters are really fixated on people of colour.

    The FBI conspiring with the Irish Mob in Boston, the near total reliance on plea deals, these are the type of things that also need to be fixed.

    As for mosques in Japan, well it seems as if they aren't so bigoted as you thought.

    There are around 80 mosques in Japan, many of them relatively small. The country’s biggest place of Islamic worship is Tokyo Camii, which has space for around 1,200 worshipers. Come with us as we pay a visit to this magnificent Ottoman-style mosque in the heart of the Japanese capital



    http://www.nippon.com/en/features/c01301/
     
  24. Technarchy macrumors 603

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    Let's drop Detroit on Japan and import a few thousand Spanish speaking gang bangers into Tokyo.

    See if those numbers hold up.
     
  25. LIVEFRMNYC thread starter macrumors 603

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    #25
    Probably the biggest reason why .......

    http://japanvisitor.blogspot.com/2008/01/japanese-police-force.html
    Let's not act as if mafias, gangs, and drugs don't exist in Japan.




    They probably don't have police raping women, and killing unarmed people neither. :rolleyes:
     

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