Why Macs Are Over-Hyped


quagmire

macrumors 603
Apr 19, 2004
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First Post, he does have good points. But, his examples are totally from a windows user in defense mode. He brings out his trump card in the beginning which is the market share thing. The worst example he made. True, if OS X did have a 85% market share, we would see more viruses of OS X. The fact is though which he ignores to mention that OS X is more secure then Windows itself.
 

iSpud

macrumors member
Jan 16, 2004
92
0
Minnesota
I agree, most of the arguments are old hat.

The marketshare argument is always hypothetical, not reality. Reality states that Mac OS X has less virii, and Windows has more. You can't really escape that truth.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
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But for some reason, Apple fanatics have gotten even more annoyingly vocal recently...
Something about this really made me chuckle. It is so very true, though. Some people are happy with Windows.

*shock*

And when Mac heads try to evangelize to them, why should they give a crap? They aren't having problems. I think MR people/Mac heads in general should rethink how they are approaching PC users to minimize the hostile response.

Constantly using a con-con argument (Windows is worse), instead of a Pro-Pro (OSX is nice, no antagonistic XP comparisons) which instill an instinctive defensive, unaccepting response.

Is it easier to here:
"Your OS sucks, you're an idiot for using it. Now, here me out about OSX"

or?

"OSX emphasizes a natural, instinctive experience with the GUI. OSX comes with an extensive multimedia suite called iLife."

(while avoiding - "Your Dell sucks, you're an idiot for buying it.")
 

clayj

macrumors 604
Jan 14, 2005
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Mav451, you're pretty on target there. I am a loyal Windows user, have been since Windows 2.11 waaaaaay back in the late '80s. I recently bought a Mac mini not because any Mac advocate told me I should, but because I was curious to have a chance to experiment with Mac OS X at home. My few weeks of playing with OS X have been nice, but am I going to Switch? No. I don't particularly think that either OS is superior... Windows' pros are quite often the Mac's cons, and vice versa.

My advice? Don't try to sell the Mac AT ALL. Any statement you make to the typical Windows user to the effect that "Windows sucks, Mac rules" is just going to either (a) piss them off or (b) alienate them. People don't like being criticized for the choices they've made, ESPECIALLY if they're happy with said choices.

The best way to approach this, IMHO, is to just show the Mac... let them play with it. I'm not a big believer in needing to be sold ANYTHING. Let me choose for myself, with no pressure at all... I'm an intelligent person and can make decisions for myself. If I have questions, answer them.

But if you come off sounding like a door-to-door evangelist, you will not succeed.
 

crazedbytheheat

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2003
168
0
OK - I'll be the first to say it. This article pretty much sucked. The title is "Why Macs Are Over-Hyped" and then goes on to talk about *only* security. They guy admits that Macs have fewer security issues and then wanders off into some other article talking about peripherals, lines of code, etc. Please! Maybe if the title were something along the lines of "Why Mac Security Is Overhyped" I might cut him some slack.

I can think of three good reasons to own a windows box. 1) games, 2) specific app that doesn't have an equivalent (these are few), and 3) a large investment in software that you don't want to replace.

As for why I personally encourage people to try out the Mac, it's because I want to see more users, which leads to more software and driver options. Second, maybe these IT departments staffed by MCSE types will actually recommend Macs in the work world.
 

hulugu

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Aug 13, 2003
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clayjohanson said:
But if you come off sounding like a door-to-door evangelist, you will not succeed.
So, maybe I should drop the 'Church of Mac' robes off at home? Damn, I just had some extra embroidering done and my Pope Hat with the Apple Logo has already been FedExed. What the hell am I going to do with a giant white hat with an LED illuminated Apple logo if not stand outside office buildings and scream 'Dell is Satan, All Hail the Glory of Jobs!' all day.

Mav and Clay, I hope Mac users haven't come off as too obnoxious, however I hope you will both admit that there are frothing Windows partisans as well. Having heard the smirking, "Is that a Mac?" from the CCIT weenies one too many times, I can admit I have had to fight hard to keep my platform of choice and it's occasionally made me testy and insistant.
Out of pure selfishness, I hope that there are many more Mac users so when someone like XM or Skype make a new product the Mac version is produced in conjunction with the Windows version and not trotted out six months later.
 

Earendil

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Oct 27, 2003
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clayjohanson said:
*snip*
My advice? Don't try to sell the Mac AT ALL. Any statement you make to the typical Windows user to the effect that "Windows sucks, Mac rules" is just going to either (a) piss them off or (b) alienate them. People don't like being criticized for the choices they've made, ESPECIALLY if they're happy with said choices. *snip*
I agree with you to a degree. Here at college though, 90% of the people here neither chose windows (they didn't know they had a choice) nor are they happy with windows. It helps greatly to show them, and talk to them about their other choices. I educate them, but I don't do it forcefully, and don't diss on windows except when doing it the same as the other people. "F*** SH*T stupid Windows! Print you stupid lab computer!! Where's my Mac!" :rolleyes:

It's not as everyone, or even a majority of the people are "up" on the Macintosh platform. And long time Mac users have suffered horrible ignorance's for a decade. It's hard not to feel like we need to inform the world. Many take it too far though...

~Tyler
 

Mav451

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Jul 1, 2003
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hulugu said:
So, maybe I should drop the 'Church of Mac' robes off at home? Damn, I just had some extra embroidering done and my Pope Hat with the Apple Logo has already been FedExed. What the hell am I going to do with a giant white hat with an LED illuminated Apple logo if not stand outside office buildings and scream 'Dell is Satan, All Hail the Glory of Jobs!' all day.

Mav and Clay, I hope Mac users haven't come off as too obnoxious, however I hope you will both admit that there are frothing Windows partisans as well. Having heard the smirking, "Is that a Mac?" from the CCIT weenies one too many times, I can admit I have had to fight hard to keep my platform of choice and it's occasionally made me testy and insistant.
Out of pure selfishness, I hope that there are many more Mac users so when someone like XM or Skype make a new product the Mac version is produced in conjunction with the Windows version and not trotted out six months later.

You have to understand that I'm a Mac user (albeit 10-20%, 80% on my PC) as well. Just trying to "evangelize" Firefox was hard enough, so I'm taking it one step at a time for my family (brother and parents). My brother still makes fun of me for caring so much about Apple. But the fact is I rarely get any flack from the PC users I know (alot of them are Linux geeks), so maybe I'm the exception?

Heck, I'm pretty sure one of my parent's friends' son works at Apple (lol that's multiple degrees I know); but for some reason I was pretty impressed and talked to them for a while. They had a iMac G4 in their home.
 

Earendil

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Oct 27, 2003
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Mav451 said:
You have to understand that I'm a Mac user (albeit 10-20%, 80% on my PC) as well. Just trying to "evangelize" Firefox was hard enough, so I'm taking it one step at a time for my family (brother and parents). *snip*
Well Good luck to you!
Here at college I'm known on my floor as "The computer guy". I'm supposed to know how to make a printer work with windows just because I'm a Computer Science Major...for the love :rolleyes:

Anyway, getting people to switch to FireFox was easy. I told them it would be better, and make their computer more secure. And hey, if they didn't like it, they could go back. Most people on my floor are now using FireFox. Switching people to Apple wouldn't be that much harder as most of these people have a useless printer taking up desk space, except that they are all poor broke college students.
Sadly, in a few years I fear they will again forget Macs exist, and some other CS major will come along and tell them to buy a dell :(

~Tyler
 

hulugu

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Aug 13, 2003
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Earendil said:
Well Good luck to you!
Here at college I'm known on my floor as "The computer guy". I'm supposed to know how to make a printer work with windows just because I'm a Computer Science Major...for the love
For the love? Forget that, for the cash or beer. :D
Your knowledge has value, institute a barter system. I used to cook too, and I charged 2.00 for a bowl of homemade chili and I always had enough for a date or a night out. ;)

Earendil said:
Sadly, in a few years I fear they will again forget Macs exist, and some other CS major will come along and tell them to buy a dell
This is what drives me bats**t about the whole thing, most people using Windows didn't make an active choice, they just got whatever. People don't do this with cars, not everyone drives a Honda Accord because that's what one mechanic likes.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
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Earendil said:
...
Sadly, in a few years I fear they will again forget Macs exist, and some other CS major will come along and tell them to buy a dell :(

~Tyler
That doesn't make sense at all. Almost all the CS/CE (Comp E) majors here use self-builts (almost entirely AMD). It would be an embarassment if any of them bought pre-builts. Now, most of them are Linux-heads, but that's expected.
 

dejo

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 2, 2004
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The Centennial State
Mav451 said:
That doesn't make sense at all. Almost all the CS/CE (Comp E) majors here use self-builts (almost entirely AMD). It would be an embarassment if any of them bought pre-builts. Now, most of them are Linux-heads, but that's expected.
A good CS Major should not be biased to any particular platform or OS, including Linux. They need to be open-minded enough to consider the pros and cons of anything thrown at them (or they find on their own). I won't comment on the CE Majors since I'd only end up berating them, since I had plenty of bad experiences with them when I was a CS Major.
 

nubero

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2003
187
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Zurich
clayjohanson said:
The best way to approach this, IMHO, is to just show the Mac... let them play with it. I'm not a big believer in needing to be sold ANYTHING. Let me choose for myself, with no pressure at all... I'm an intelligent person and can make decisions for myself. If I have questions, answer them.

But if you come off sounding like a door-to-door evangelist, you will not succeed.
That's it exactly.
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
I agree completely. I have friends when planning to buy a new computer, I've suggested they look at a Mac as part of their purchase choice if I'm asked my opinion. Some say it's not for them straight off, some try and decide it's not for them ('but I can't maximise the screen with one click' was more important than lack of viruses) and some go try and buy a Mac.

Whatever suits that person is the way to go - and the friendship is a lot more important than being so much of a Mac evangelist that they start avoiding your company!

Having said that, it's very hard not to look slightly disinterested when those who disdained the platform without looking, start reciting their tales of woe with spyware etc and ask for advice on how to fix it.
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
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Back in the motherland
What is it with everybody writing articles nowadays about stuff they have never even used or even laid eyes on?

This guy is persisting, despite many people telling him otherwise that the first account created in OSX has root access by default... :eek:
I guess only in these times it is possible for such people to be employed...
 

clayj

macrumors 604
Jan 14, 2005
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hulugu said:
Mav and Clay, I hope Mac users haven't come off as too obnoxious, however I hope you will both admit that there are frothing Windows partisans as well. Having heard the smirking, "Is that a Mac?" from the CCIT weenies one too many times, I can admit I have had to fight hard to keep my platform of choice and it's occasionally made me testy and insistant.
It's not all Mac users who are obnoxious, but I will point out the following:
  • The average obnoxiousness level is, in my observation, higher for Mac users than it is for Windows users.
  • It doesn't really matter that there are "frothing Windows partisans"... they're not trying to convert people to the Mac, which is what this conversation's all about. The people to whom you are referring aren't going to try to get you to switch to the PC, because they really don't care. They're just making fun of you.
  • The Mac zealots I've had the misfortune to come across are some real gems... they're almost sociopathic.
  • The number of Mac users who act as though computing is some sort of religious experience is WAY higher than the number of similar Windows users.
  • Windows users don't, in my experience, compare their computers to other lifestyle choices (none of that Windows::Mac as Ford::BMW or Nordstrom::Wal-Mart crap). I've posted some images here of my residence, and at least one person wrote, "That's obviously the house of a Mac person." Sorry, but I am a PC user first and a Mac user a distant second. The point is that you cannot judge someone by their choice of car, computer, or beer, no matter how much you might want to.
I could have chosen to buy a Mac anytime I wanted to... money was not (and is not) an issue. But I only chose to buy one recently, when the Mac mini was introduced. I *like* Windows; I chose Windows; I'm sticking with Windows. But I'll play with a Mac.
 

Jalexster

macrumors 6502a
Jun 8, 2004
668
0
Mav451 said:
SNIP
(while avoiding - "Your Dell sucks, you're an idiot for buying it.")
Ok... NOW you are asking too much. You can't expect us to not take a swing at Dull, do you?
 

Jalexster

macrumors 6502a
Jun 8, 2004
668
0
hulugu said:
SNIP
What the hell am I going to do with a giant white hat with an LED illuminated Apple logo if not stand outside office buildings and scream 'Dell is Satan, All Hail the Glory of Jobs!' all day.
SNIP
How about you go and scream the same thing outside the Microsoft campus?
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
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clayjohanson said:
It's not all Mac users who are obnoxious, but I will point out the following:
  • The average obnoxiousness level is, in my observation, higher for Mac users than it is for Windows users.
  • It doesn't really matter that there are "frothing Windows partisans"... they're not trying to convert people to the Mac, which is what this conversation's all about. The people to whom you are referring aren't going to try to get you to switch to the PC, because they really don't care. They're just making fun of you.
  • The Mac zealots I've had the misfortune to come across are some real gems... they're almost sociopathic.
  • The number of Mac users who act as though computing is some sort of religious experience is WAY higher than the number of similar Windows users.
  • Windows users don't, in my experience, compare their computers to other lifestyle choices (none of that Windows::Mac as Ford::BMW or Nordstrom::Wal-Mart crap). I've posted some images here of my residence, and at least one person wrote, "That's obviously the house of a Mac person." Sorry, but I am a PC user first and a Mac user a distant second. The point is that you cannot judge someone by their choice of car, computer, or beer, no matter how much you might want to.
I could have chosen to buy a Mac anytime I wanted to... money was not (and is not) an issue. But I only chose to buy one recently, when the Mac mini was introduced. I *like* Windows; I chose Windows; I'm sticking with Windows. But I'll play with a Mac.
Wow, QFT =D.

I agree especially with your last point. Some Mac users go as far as to stereotype PC users to be "cheap" or "frugal" just b/c they got a Dell/HP/eMachine. There is just as much a chance as the PC user having a Kia as he could have a Lexus.
 

rugdude

macrumors newbie
Apr 3, 2004
4
0
New Jersey
Not a angry Mac head but an apostle

As a some one who switched back 3+ years ago. Original Mac 128K in '84
I must admit to showing off my G4 PB and the cool stuff that it does. And the lack of pop ups and spam while surfing. I have sucessfully converted 3 people based on the fact that I have no problems with the Mac. I am a heavy office user and have been able to switch these friends and family members due to the ease of use and simplicity of the OS. My read of the writer is that he is pissed that we Mac users love a computer that is designed for ease of use and is dare I say elegant! :D
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,546
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Washington
clayjohanson said:
It's not all Mac users who are obnoxious, but I will point out the following:
  • The average obnoxiousness level is, in my observation, higher for Mac users than it is for Windows users.
    *snip*.


  • I tend to disagree... Though what is considered "Obnoxious" may vary from person to person. Personally, I don't think Mac users have any outright hatred for people that use windows (they may hate the OS though, but then many PC users do too).

    I don't, nor have I ever seen an Apple user walk into a room, and criticize someone outright for having a windows computer. This really makes no sense anyway, as supposedly Windows has 98% of the market, and Mac users would be doing this to everyone, every time they entered any room. On the other hand, When I walk into Labs here at college, especially the CS lab, I get all kinds of "HA!" looks from other students, and some people give the "ugg, you use a Mac?!" speal as if I walked in wearing a speedo.

    Windows users openly criticize ME, and not my computer, as they don't know enough about my computer to actually criticize it. They only have some ignorant passion for hating Macs, but really don't know anything. Unlike most Mac users, who come from the PC world (or have had lots of contact with it) and while ignorance does exist, I think Mac users are far more capably of making a good comparison, and discussing the benefits of using OSX vs Windows.

    Where as it doesn't take long for the arguments of the average In-The-Know PC user to break down, due to the lack of any real knowledge of the Mac platform. So I find that, in my own experience, Windows users when they think they are right, will turn to slandering the Human, while Mac users tend to stick to attacking the Windows OS.

    ~Tyler
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
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Maryland
Earendil said:
I tend to disagree... Though what is considered "Obnoxious" may vary from person to person. Personally, I don't think Mac users have any outright hatred for people that use windows (they may hate the OS though, but then many PC users do too).

I don't, nor have I ever seen an Apple user walk into a room, and criticize someone outright for having a windows computer. This really makes no sense anyway, as supposedly Windows has 98% of the market, and Mac users would be doing this to everyone, every time they entered any room. On the other hand, When I walk into Labs here at college, especially the CS lab, I get all kinds of "HA!" looks from other students, and some people give the "ugg, you use a Mac?!" speal as if I walked in wearing a speedo.

Windows users openly criticize ME, and not my computer, as they don't know enough about my computer to actually criticize it. They only have some ignorant passion for hating Macs, but really don't know anything. Unlike most Mac users, who come from the PC world (or have had lots of contact with it) and while ignorance does exist, I think Mac users are far more capably of making a good comparison, and discussing the benefits of using OSX vs Windows.

Where as it doesn't take long for the arguments of the average In-The-Know PC user to break down, due to the lack of any real knowledge of the Mac platform. So I find that, in my own experience, Windows users when they think they are right, will turn to slandering the Human, while Mac users tend to stick to attacking the Windows OS.

~Tyler
I don't get this. Maybe its a west coast vs. east coast thing, or maybe its just my campus but with our computer labs having a balanced G5 & Dell combo, I hardly see any kind of "discrimination" or disdain toward Mac users. Perhaps it has something to do with the G5's making up half of the computers in our main library lab, so maybe its a sign of changing culture?