Why this Ohio sheriff refuses to let his deputies carry Narcan to reverse overdoses

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogslobber, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    #1
  2. sodapop1 Suspended

    sodapop1

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    I'm confused, didn't this sheriff agree when he was sworn in that his duty was "to protect and serve" the public? Apparently, he seems to have forgotten about his duty to serve the public. There was a news story the other day about a police officer helping to deliver a baby. Fortunately, they didn't sit there and say it wasn't their job.
     
  3. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Clear the herd imo, this is self inflicted idiocy.
     
  4. shinji macrumors 65816

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    Law enforcement in neighboring areas don't share that view. And as it says in your own article, re putting their lives at risk:

     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    Iirc couple of paramedics died when exposed to some of the new crap hitter mg the streets so I don't blame them
     
  6. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    Once you have discarded the notion of common humanity, many things are possible. Not sure that I really value the life of a jack booted government thug-- apart from a respect for other "humans"
     
  7. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    Cops put their lives at risk all the time. Are they going to refuse to do traffic stops too?
     
  8. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    Why not outsource that to the speed cameras?
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Once again, ZA, you put your compassion and love of humanity in full display.

    smh.
     
  10. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    Speeding, passing school buses and running red lights aren't the only infractions that a motorist should be stopped for. I'd personally appreciate it if cops continued to pull people over for erratic driving, even though that's fairly dangerous.

    The point is that cops do all kinds of danger stuff every day, so I'm not buying the "It's too dangerous to administer Narcan" business that this guy is pushing. He simply doesn't believe an addict's life is worth saving. I can only pray that one day, someone he cares about doesn't become an addict and die while someone in his organization had the ability to save him.
     
  11. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    I don't know enough about the topic but on its face I'm open minded to cops being trained to administer Narcan...particularly since it can be delivered via nasal spray. It seems to go hand-in-hand with CPR. The legal aspects hopefully are addressed by the state legislatures for non-medical professionals administering it or not.

    In metro areas where ALS/BLS service responses can be timely it might not be as important, but for small or rural communities where the ETA is extended it makes good sense to me.
     
  12. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    Traffic stops are well trained and the cop is in control and knows the signs for threats. A seemingly unconscious stiff that suddenly thrusts towards a cop trying to react to the drug user is a different situation entirely.
     
  13. LordVic macrumors 601

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    #13
    than train them?

    if a paramedic can learn how to hold down a drug overdose patient to administer first and and OD drugs, a cop can very well do it too.

    This is nothing more than a police force making reaching excuses for wanting to treat drug users as less than human. "oh, you're a druggy, why should I waste any time on you. Die you evil scum".
     
  14. A.Goldberg, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #14
    Oh my god. I honestly would love to call this guy up and ream him out. This is a great lawsuit opportunity too for someone sooner or later.

    This department can't afford to put a 2oz 2"x2"x0.5" device in their medical kits?
    Here's the auto-injector and intranasal kits respectively.
    IMG_8158.JPG

    I have narcan'ed a number of people in my life and witnessed even even more. I have never seen someone become particuarly combative. Since they're instantaneously sent into withdrawal (and oftentimes previously dead or near death), they end up being vomiting, nauseous, having to **** themselves, dazed, confused, etc. The comment is completely invalid considering if overdosed people were combative and dangerous, then he's passing that off to the EMTs and fire fighters? What is the polices job?

    I thought police officers were employed to help people. Brain damage sets in within 4min of lack of oxygen to the brain. Time is of the essence. Often police officers are the first to respond to emergencies while EMT's can take longer to respond.

    Why doesn't the police treat diabetics with insulin or allergic reactions with epipens? Probably because drugs like insulin and epinephrine if inappropriately used can have lethal side effects. Narcan doesn't carry much risk.

    The notion that all opiate overdoses are dangerous criminals is also false. Around here it's a lot of teens and young adults who may otherwise be smart, wealthy, and/or productive members of society. It's also a fact that many overdoses are accidental- children eating pills, old people mixing up doses, etc. The notion that more people dying from opiates will stop people from using is also false, otherwise rates would be going down, not up.

    Hopefully the media attention will drive this department to make the right decision here.

    --- Post Merged, Jul 8, 2017 ---
    By the way, I volunteer my time doing Narcan trainings for various groups (Parents, medical staff, teachers, emergency services, etc). It takes about 20-30min with people who have no background in first aid or medicine. The autoinjector version has an automated voice for instructions for gods sake.

    I guess the question for this guy is if you could save a life, would you? Or is a junkie just not worth saving?
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    While I share your sentiment, I doubt they could be sued. it seems to me that it easier to sue when an action is taken recklessly or negligently, than when no action is taken at all. And as been discussed in these threads many times in the past, police aren't legally compelled to act according to the victims needs ... let alone the perps.

    But again, I do wish we could act more humanely towards people, even those who fall below our accepted level of behavior. The idea of letting people die because they don't measure up to a moral standard ... particularly when it comes to victimless crime ... is repugnant.
     
  16. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    We could also train paramedics to be cops too while we're at it.

    I have little sympathy for drug users as I believe you are responsible for your own actions and the consequences that come with them. I certainly value the life of the police officer above a drug addict who overdosed, yes.
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #17
    While it's a good slogan, and a nice catchphrase, that's not the duty of a law enforcement officer.
    The duty of a law enforcement is to enforce the law. Cops don't have any Constitutional Duty to protect any individual.
     
  18. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #18
    While to some degree it's the users responsibility not to use drugs and seek help. But many are dissuaded to due to financials and stigma. A lot of addictions (particularly opioid) stem from over prescribing. Once the disease of addiction kicks in, by definition, they really don't have control over their actions. The primative functions over brain override the prefrontal correct (executive decision making) and drug use becomes less and less of a choice but rather an instinctive need for perceived survival. It's a rather complex and poorly understood mechanism to those unaware of the disease.

    But like I sais, there are a lot of accidentsl overdoses- children getting into pills thinking they're candy, Elders forgetting their previous doses or confusing medications, pregnant addicts overdosing and putting their innocent fetus at risk. There's a lot more to the story than the stereotypical junky shooting up for fun.
     
  19. thekev macrumors 604

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    Hopefully the media will help put an end to this ghoul's career in law enforcement.
     
  20. Gutwrench, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017

    Gutwrench macrumors 65816

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    I agree with your opinion on cops being trained with Narcan.

    I agree with this also. I was a DRE and around a lot of dope. I don't have any memory of anyone under the influence of heroin, in particular, being combative or exhibiting aggressive behavior. Actually to the contrary they were mellow and cooperative. CNS stimulants and huffers were a different story.
     
  21. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Why are the police the first to respond to someone ODing?

    That seems to me to be the root of the problem, seems like we would want EMT's to be the first responders when someone calls 911 for medical reasons, but no, lets see if we can find someone to shoot or arrest.
     
  22. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    Why would you take someone with a very valuable skill and waste their talents on skut work?
     
  23. Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    Good posts. I have no medical training but am a bit long in the tooth and have experienced a lot of drug users in my time.To imagine that the "street junkie" with a needle hanging out their arm is the norm is not to see the whole picture.Many IVDU people are professionals and keep a tight control on their habits, they may well be using pharmaceutical drugs rather than street drugs.The medical profession is well know for this.
     
  24. darksithpro, Jul 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017

    darksithpro macrumors regular

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    My argument would be Police Officers are not medically trained professionals. Paramedics, Nurses and Doctors all have extensive training and medical degrees. They are highly trained professionals to deal with medical situations. Cops, for the most part may have had CPR training at most. To me it comes to a liability problem. This so called Narcan can potentially save lives on OD patients IF administered correctly by trained professionals. What happens if these Cops try to apply this drug and they don't know what they're doing, or use it with a patient that isn't suffering from an overdose narcotic? Lawsuits could happen if they screw up, cities and towns can be sued for millions. Even if they can even identify a patient that exhibits the signs of being overdosed they don't have the medical training to administer the treatment.
     
  25. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    You just identified the other reason for the police to wait for paramedics. What combination of complications will be impacted by this allegedly innocent nasal spray? Sorry, cops get enough of a rap these days without getting liability thrown at them. A rookie might not know due to his or her lack of years on the street.

    But I come back to my particular position, I worry about an officer getting stabbed by a needle while trying to revive somebody who doesn’t respect their own life. No cop should be hurt or infected by anything in such circumstances. Cops have lives and support responsibilitiestoo.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017 ---
    I think you are being disingenuous to somebody who puts their life on the line every day by referring to their role as such.
     

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