Why would you join our military at this point in history?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Chew Toy McCoy, May 9, 2019.

  1. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    May 13, 2016
    #1
    In response to some answers I’m expecting…

    If its for some patriotism reason, does your reason square with the reality of what the military is actually doing and why?

    If it’s for some kind of job opportunity and future education and career reasons, if the same opportunity was part of fixing our country’s infrastructure would you do that instead or still join the military?
     
  2. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #2
    If I could join to work on fixing the country’s infrastructure, I would do that in a heartbeat. On top of the skills one would get out of it for the future, that would be too good.

    Which is why that wouldn’t happen. :mad:
     
  3. Infinite Vortex macrumors regular

    Infinite Vortex

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    #3
    For many it has become a "reasonable" exchange for getting an education that they could not have otherwise attained or afforded.
     
  4. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #4
    And I find that beyond infuriating. The government only supports improving your future if you just let them turn you into a murderer for the rich which is likely to emotionally fry your brain. But hey, you get a degree!
     
  5. linuxcooldude, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019

    linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #5
    I joined the Military and finished out my twenty years. While I initially joined for economic and educational reasons, patriotism came from that. Been to at least 23 countries, most multiple times. Went on tours in the local areas and talked to the locals, which gave me great insight to the social and cultural aspects of the regions. If I had a choice to redo it over again would go back into the military.
    --- Post Merged, May 9, 2019 ---
    You may see it that way, but I see it differently. We have been sent off for humanitarian reasons such as when I went to Mount Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines. Raining down ash with the smell of decomposing corpses all around. Lebanon hostage crisis, many others.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #6
    At 18 do you know any better? We are the “good” guys remember.....
     
  7. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

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    #8
    I probably wouldn't join, not because I have any general opposition to the military (much as I may disagree with certain military operations--blame the government for those), but because it's pretty obvious that I'm not military material. I wouldn't have the mental or physical prowess for it. I'm a man of letters :D Pen > Sword and such.

    Now, infrastructure, I could get on board with. I pay a lot of attention to local infrastructure projects so I could see actually working on one.
     
  8. lostngone macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #9
    ??? That is the way it has always been! If it isn’t free/cheap education it was in trade to erase debt or in trade for not going to jail/prison. If people stopped enlisting there would have to be a draft or mandatory service.
     
  9. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #10
    Did you get something in the mail? :p
     
  10. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #11
    There’s a lot of people in the military who do not participate in active war zones, shooting at others and being shot at. If you’re in the Navy, Air Force, or Coast Guard, unless you’re a Navy/AF chances are you won’t be killing anyone.

    When I worked at the VA something like 35% of injuries and 12% of deaths in active war zones took place outside of battle- I’m not sure how long that statistic looks back, I’m guessing to the initial invasion of Afghanistan. The interesting thing is, as of late, is that there’s more military members are becoming injured and dying in training than in actual war. But the number of non-combat deaths and injuries seems relatively the same, probably demonstrating we’re winning the war and the new technologies being utilized AEDs. In terms of physical injury and death, there are still far more dangerous careers out there than the military.

    As you alluded, one of the biggest problems is with PTSD, which now accounts for 20% disability payments and is estimated to occur in about 10-20% of veterans in the war on terror. It’s really difficult to adequately judge these numbers though. At the the same time, PTSD is believed to occur in about 8.5% of the US adult population at any given time, with 70% experiencing 1+ traumatic event, 20% of these to develop a chronic problem. The suicide rates in veterans are often compared against the general population which is a little misleading, once you adjust for age and gender it’s about 1/3 higher for men- not a great statistic, but the vastly overlooked problem is the veteran women who are 5.5x more likely to commit suicide. The statistics on sexual abuse and harassment for women are also horrific (as they likely are for men, but to a lesser degree.

    Trauma comes in many forms and people many process it very different ways. It also comes in varying degrees of severity. I would be careful A. to call our call our veterans “murders”, as many/most probably have not killed and I think most would say it’s disrespectful to call a veteran a murder unless they actually committed a war crime. That aside, I would also be careful to not label veterans as “emotionally fried”. Yes, too many soldiers experience PTSD. But many/most do recover to state where their PTSD is manageable, where they’re not experiencing anxiety or depression, live a fulfilling life, and are not permanently disabled.

    I people are aware of the risks when they decide to join the military. At least when I was in college, 3/4 of military applicants were ineligible. In reality, I think most people who really want to attend college but are looking to have college paid for try for an ROTC program that will allow them to graduate and then go into the military as an officer. The number of veterans who use the GI bill and graduate even with an associates degree.

    There are however many ways underprivileged students can afford college. I won’t deny having a supportive, affluent family has its benefits in terms of getting into the best schools, but coming from a poor family can have its financial benefits in terms of affording college. The problem with the lower classes isn’t so much about going to college, it’s about completing college. Which is a conversation in itself.
     
  11. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #12
    I'd like to see some prior or active service members opinions. I'm personally too old (and kinda scrawny) for Military service, but I'd like to think it teaches valuable (and sometimes marketable) skills, teaches people to check their ego and work as a team towards a goal, and gives you an opportunity to travel and sometimes make a difference. Honestly, for some, it is the only option out of poverty, and gives structure to those who need it. Soldiers do build wells and do other humanitarian tasks - not just shoot people. Yet the prevalence of PTSD among troops makes it somewhat of a hard sale - at least if serving in the Marines or Army.
     
  12. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #13
    He dad was in the military. He was a mathematician, software developer, and electrical engineer. His retirement after 20 years left him with phenomenal medical benefits, access to military base shopping and hospitals, retirement pay, and skills directly applicable to high-paying, high-demand civilian jobs which he immediately transitioned into.

    It's not just those benefits though, which you correctly point out could apply to any job with good benefits. My dad has lived in Japan, Korea, Philippines, Greece, and all over the west coast and east coast of the USA. He got to see and experience many countries, cultures, languages, and food.

    I was envious. Still am. So yes, I would. I know you said "at this point in history" and not decades ago, but I think my reasons would still apply today even given the current situation and all the BS we are involved in.
     
  13. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #14
    I wouldn't, I'm getting older and fatter everyday. That and taking orders, eating crap rations (though base food isn't bad), early wake-up calls, late nights, lots of tiring patrols not to mention the added stress of looking out for IED's or people wanting to share copious amounts of high velocity lead with you or your buddies is ...something I can live without.

    So I just sit here at my computer, doing my thing, and making sure the soldiers who embrace the suck for whatever reason, aren't sent into the **** without good reason.
     
  14. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #15
    The reasons I joined in my younger days still hold true for me today.
    So yes, if it was an option I would seriously consider it.

    Of my kids (4) none joined the military. One did become a military wife.
     
  15. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    May 13, 2016
    #16
    I’d also like to know how Christians square this one. Beyond “thou shall not kill” and “turn the other cheek” there’s possibly some wiggle room for self defense, but I think flying thousands of miles away and killing innocent people in the defense of money hardly qualifies.
    --- Post Merged, May 10, 2019 ---
    I feel like you're not listing your personal reasons because it doesn’t match the prime objective of the military now. Basically the nobility no longer exists but the nostalgia of it still does and I’m sure the military also piles that on thick.
     
  16. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #17
    Education / Experience
    Patriotism / Family history
     
  17. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #18
    Good grief, hyperbole much?
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #19
    Tell me, what has changed since Smedly Butler?
     
  19. VictorTango777 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 28, 2017
    #20
    There are four types of people who join the military.
    1. For some, it's family trade.
    2. Others are patriots, eager to serve.
    3. Next you have those who just need a job.
    4. Then there's the kind who want the legal means of killing other people.

    Everyone, regardless of their real motivation, will answer patriotism. As an MP, I have encountered a few of that fourth kind.

    - Jack Reacher
     
  20. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #21
    I don't agree that innocent people carry AK-47's.
     
  21. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #22
    An estimated 500,000 people have been killed in the middle east because on 1 day in the US 9 people killed 3,000 people and it's all been for nothing. Actually less than nothing. We've gained a huge debt and created more enemies than we had before 9/11. But you think I'm being over the top and should tone it down.

    Here's some specific facts, or hyperbole I guess.

    6,951 U.S. military deaths
    Iraq: 4,550 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 2,401 deaths.

    Pakistan: 0 deaths.

    There were also 21 civilian DoD deaths, including six in Afghanistan and 15 in Iraq, the Cost of War report notes.

    7,820 U.S. contractor deaths.
    Iraq: 3,793 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 3,937 deaths.

    Pakistan: 90 deaths.

    109,154 national military and police deaths.
    Iraq: 41,726 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 58,596 deaths.

    Pakistan: 8,832 deaths.

    1,464 Allied troop deaths
    Iraq: 323 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 1,141 deaths.

    Pakistan: 0 deaths.

    244,124 — 266,427 civilian deaths
    Iraq: 182,272 — 204,575 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 38,480 deaths.

    Pakistan: 23,372 deaths

    109,396 — 114,471 opposition fighter deaths
    Iraq: 34,806 — 39,881 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 42,100 deaths.

    Pakistan: 32,490 deaths.

    362 journalists and media worker deaths
    Iraq: 245 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 54 deaths.

    Pakistan: 63 deaths

    566 humanitarian and NGO worker deaths
    Iraq: 62 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 409 deaths.

    Pakistan: 95 deaths

    479,858 — 507,236 total deaths
    Iraq: 267,792 — 295,170 deaths.

    Afghanistan: 147,124 deaths.

    Pakistan: 64,942 deaths.
    --- Post Merged, May 10, 2019 ---
    Please see above. You believe all those people were carrying AKs?
     
  22. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #23
    No source for these figures?

    Yep, US military killed every single one of them. /sarcasm
     
  23. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #24
    You missed quite a few.
    --- Post Merged, May 10, 2019 ---
    I guess some forget the medics. The dentists. The mechanics. The counselors. The priests. The ....
     
  24. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #25
    The last thing one should do now is join the military and be sent on a ship to the Strait of Hormuz.
     

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