WikiLeaks’ Manning To Be Honored At San Francisco Pride Parade

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #1
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/04/12/wikileaks-chelsea-manning-grand-marshal-pride-parade/

    everyone wants "transparency" until we actually get it, then everyone would have done it "differently".

    can't have "transparency" w/o the rest of the world seeing it. your forefathers were branded "traitors" when things started


    anyways, what do you think?
     
  2. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #2
    Manning and Snowden are very different animals.

    If asked I doubt anyone can even say what manning leaked and what value it was to the greater public.

    Personally, I regard him as a traitor that exploited his access and clearance.
     
  3. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #3
    Personally, I'm torn, as I can see both sides of their situations.

    The question really is, how does the Constitution see them?

    From Article 3, Section 3:

    It all boils down to taking each clause as its literal condition for treason. Did both Manning and Snowden give aid or comfort to our enemies? I would say yes and no, because what they did provided info to everyone, including our enemies, as well as the general public. Did they adhere to them? Again, I would say no, as it would have been defined who those enemies are.

    Compare that to the last person to be tried for treason, which would be John Walker Lindh, as for him both answers would be yes.

    What they did was wrong, especially with the bounds of process and due process. Was their reasoning a right or just cause? yes. So there are a bunch of conflicts there as to ultimately what they would be deemed.

    So they face charges on what they did and how they did it, but not treason or a traitor.

    BL.
     
  4. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #4
    I regard both of them as traitors. Manning at least had the courage to face his trial (or her trial) and is serving his/her punishment. Snowden is not only a traitor but a coward.
     
  5. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    #5
    It's courageous to stay and basically get tortured, yes, but it isn't exactly cowardly to not want that sort of treatment.
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #6
    What enemy did Chelsea aid? The public?:roll eyes:

    I take it you would have tried Ellsberg for treason as well right?
     
  7. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    #7
    But... but ... he showed that the US has done war crimes (that we aren't being charged on). Imagine if the terrorists knew that, they could ... errr.... I don't know.

    But something bad, I know that!

    'Murica!

    >_>

    I am in full sarcasm mode today for some reason.
     
  8. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #8
    If he truly believed what he did was right, he should have no problem facing a jury of his peers in an attempt to convince them. Instead he has chosen to flee and live amongst our enemies. He is a coward, plain and simple.
     
  9. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #9
    you assume he would make it to trial, rather easy to fabricate "evidence" to discredit the man if he stayed .
    P-A & the NDAA make it so you can be held w/o a trial. NDAA was over turned IIRC.
     
  10. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    #10
    It took Bradley Manning a year to get to trial.

    Also, what enemy? He went to Russia, our ally. He also went to Hong Kong, another of our allies.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #11
    Manning, I've always had a conflicting opinion of. But Snowden a traitor, guilty of treason? He exposed a conspiracy against the American people by going straight to the press. He gave no aid or succor to the enemy, gave them no information they could directly use against us, and we weren't weakened by his actions. Instead, he did exactly what yee olde Founding Fathers intended us to do when our government steps over the line. He gave us the information, and enabled us to voice our opinion over something that isn't necessarily in our best interests.

    The guy deserves a medal.
     
  12. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #12
    Snowden is a coward who does not have the nerve to face up to the people for what he has done. He will hide overseas for the rest of his miserable life. If he truly believed in what he did, he would have no problem defending it before a jury. He'd not only not fear it but he would be welcoming it and insisting upon it.
     
  13. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #13
    Yeah, assuming the fact they'd give him a fair trial, which probably wouldn't happen in this case.

    I don't blame the guy for not wanting to become a martyr.
     
  14. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #14
    Manning got his trial.
     
  15. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #15
    Yeah, and Manning arguably deserved his trial. I equate Snowden more with Mark Felt.
     
  16. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    #16
    Not in these days, when the prosecutors are legally allowed to have not share what they have. Only an idiot would have stayed. Heck, Manning had to wait a year (and deal with a lot of crap he shouldn't have, even if you think he should have been arrested at all in the first place). No, he did the smart thing.

    Only an idiot would think this is anything to rush back for. He'd disappear for over a year before he had a trial, and he'd definitely not be in good health when he finally got to the courtroom.

    So, yes, he likely truly believes in what he did. But he's no idiot, he knows what happens these days to people who give up Government secrets.
     
  17. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    #17
    Sigh, can we at least get Ms Manning's pronoun right? Chelsea Manning is a woman, whether or not you agree with what she did in regards to her position and what was leaked, can we at least respect her as a human being?

    Chelsea Manning and Kristen Beck are brave women who served as well as had to have their transitions in the public eye. I think SF Pride should honor both of them.
     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #18
    Totally agree!!!!
     
  19. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #19
    Why would he ever trust a system & government to give him a fair trial when that same government that egregiously violated the 4th amendment to it's own Constitution to illegally spy on it's own citizens?
     
  20. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #20
    That is a fair point. And even the most staunch conservatives here can agree with that, especially as both political parties have done this very exact thing since 2002.

    BL.
     
  21. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #21
    sad to say that in other forums, when Bush was in charge, the common post from "conservatives" was

    *****if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about******
     
  22. ThisIsNotMe, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014

    ThisIsNotMe macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
  23. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #23
    Breaking OPSEC is aiding the enemy by default.

    ----------

    I'd love to see these posts from so-called conservatives.
     
  24. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #24
    Sorry but Ms. Chelsea is technically a MAN. That would make the pronouns, HE or HIM or HIS correct. Sure he wants to be a she but he still has the plumbing.
     
  25. bradl, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #25
    And that's my point. Their saying this is akin to making excuses to justify the action.. yet Manning and Snowden are called cowards and traitors for exposing the same thing?

    Talk about serious double standards here. What was that old saying? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, or something similar?

    And again, who is this 'enemy'? If it is not defined, it is open-ended, in which anyone could qualify as 'the enemy'.

    Elian Gonzalez' relatives in Miami helping him cross the Gulf from Cuba could be interpreted as 'aiding the enemy'.

    Helping bin Laden in 1980 could be interpreted as 'aiding the enemy'.

    Helping Pakistan as we have over the past 8 years, knowing full well they have been supporting the Taliban could be interpreted as 'aiding the enemy'.

    Yet none of those involved with that, from Gonzalez' relatives, all the way up to 2 Presidents and a VP have been tried for treason.

    Your argument is using too wide of a brush, and fails.

    BL.
     

Share This Page