Will Orman Save the Democrat Majority in the Senate?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Southern Dad, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #1
    After Democrat, Chad Taylor dropped out of the race, leaving Greg Orman to square of against Pat Roberts it looked like that was a wildcard seat. If Orman was to be elected, as an Independent in the Senate, which side would he caucus with? Both sides would certainly be offering him better committees and help with his bills, which would be good for the state of Kansas but what would it do for the chances of the GOP taking the Senate?

    As we get in the final stretch before the election a handful of states will determine control of the US Senate. It's not a question of whether the Democrats lose seats, it's just a question of how many. Five seats and President Barack Obama breathes a sigh of relief, six and we have "The Shellacking - Part Deux."
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Frankly, I hope the Republicans win the Senate (they won't hold it in 2016). They won't have a choice not to govern.
     
  3. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    Yeah I say we let em have this one, and then proceed to mop the floor with them in 2016. Keep things interesting.
     
  4. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    If I recall Orman left the GOP saying they were far too extreme recently.
     
  5. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    I agree that it will be a GOP bloodbath in 2016. However, I believe that the only hope the GOP has in 2016 is to get the House and Senate in 2014 then pass a lot of bills over the objections of the Democrats. If the President chooses to veto each and every one, then fine but the Dems then become the party of "No."

    It is not the job of the Congress to "govern" it is their job to legislate. Governing is the responsibility of the executive branch.

    Odd, you use the verb let… as if the democrats had a choice in it.
     
  6. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    That would depend on what bills they are trying to pass...
     
  7. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    Truthfully, it doesn't matter. All they need to do is pass a bunch of them. They need to pass a budget. We know that will get a veto. Then they need to fund the government department by department. Forcing the Democrats and the President to vote/veto each one.

    I'm not saying that it's a great way to run the country but if they get both houses, then President Obama is in a position that he will have to work with them or be seen as an obstructionist. Clinton and GW Bush faced the same issue their last two years.
     
  8. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    It's an AWFUL way to run the country. And we, as voters, are allowing it to happen.

    WE need to stop with the bi-partisan tunnel vision and start voting in legislators that actually want to help us and not themselves or their party.
     
  9. zin, Oct 15, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014

    zin macrumors 6502

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    Yes, and that forced Clinton to sign some pretty horrible pieces of legislation. By his own words, the only reason he signed DOMA into law was because he thought that by vetoing it, it would some how cause an insurrection demanding a full on constitutional amendment, which would obviously have been much harder to reverse.

    Not to mention 1990s Republicans are vastly different to 2010s Republicans.
     
  10. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    That's a great idea. President Obama has said he'll work with the Republicans, as long as they do it his way.
     
  11. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    And that makes him different than any other politician in Washington how? Though, an argument can be made that the behavior of said republicans forced him into it.

    Our government is acting worse than 3rd graders on a playground. And we continue to elect the same people over and over. It's our own fault.
     
  12. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    You have to admit ramming something as the 2700+ page healthcare bill through without a single republican vote didn't help much. Then using reconciliation and a gutted bill was icing on the cake. I think the republicans were mad because they didn't think of it first.
     
  13. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #13
    And you're part of the problem. All you're doing is repeating anti - Obama hatred talking points aimed at the politically uneducated masses.
     
  14. zin macrumors 6502

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    I think the Republicans were and are mad because millions more Americans now have access to health insurance.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #15
    I don't disagree with you. On most issues, I'm to the right of the conservatives. They aren't just talking points. I believe that the liberals are spending us into a deep hole. Both parties don't want real cuts. They actually only talk about cuts to future increases. I want to see real cuts. Something like the Connie Mack Penny Plan.

    At some point, the USA runs out of credit. Is that at $25 Trillion? $45 Trillion? I don't know but when we hit it, it's going to make Greece look like a walk in the park.
     
  16. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #16
    I don't think the GOP will take the Senate and I believe Hillary will destroy whatever palooka they put on the card in '16.

    I don't say that with any satisfaction. However, that's where I'd put my money of I was a bettin man.
     
  17. tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

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    He says that now, but in his signing statement in 1993, he said he has "long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages".

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/ftp/wpaf2mc/clinton.html

    My own guess is that since the DOMA legislation was passed unanimously in the House, and 97-0 in the Senate, and was strongly supported by civil libertarians on the one hand and religious/family groups on the other, whatever his real views were, for political expediency he did not want to stand in the way of the overwhelming public and Congressional support for it.

    That said, times change, people change, and I'm OK with him changing his view about it. Lots of people have. But given his history, I will always wonder about the reasons behind the change.

    One problem with Obama is that he is blinded by ideology and it affects his abilities to govern and act as commander in chief. He's also got a tight circle of advisers that continue to act similarly, so he's not getting good advice. Just look at the recent books by Leon Panetta and others exposing the problem. I was no big supporter of Bill Clinton, but at least he worked with Congress, even when it switched parties in 1994. Obama doesn't work with Congress or any body else, and instead tries to get his policies enacted by Executive Order. He's isolated himself, and is now toxic to many of the Democrats running for re-election.

    I think the behavior of the president and the Democrats forced the Republicans forced them to do what they're doing. His smug attitude, refusal to work with the Republicans, and the overreach of the president and the Democrats really soured things badly. SD is right about the Democrats ramming the ACA bill through, in the middle of the night, using questionable parliamentary tactics, with buy-offs to some Congressional members. The absolute worst way to handle a major piece of social legislation, and now we're all suffering for it. Instead of going through the normal, careful consideration that bills of this kind usually do, it was rammed through without much thought or reflection on possible bad outcomes. That's why we're seeing people thrown off of their insurance, the court challenges, rising insurance rates, people having their hours cut, etc.
     
  18. zin macrumors 6502

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    It is hard to take this post seriously. Obama is blinded by ideology and yet the Republicans are the ones that have thus far voted to defund Obamacare 54 times in 4 years. They even shut down the Government unless the condition of repealing Obamacare was met.

    Obama has tried to work with the Congress. It is a useless Congress. They want nothing but repealing Obamacare.

    Less than 1 million people lost their insurance after the major Obamacare provisions came into effect, and there is insufficient evidence to support your claim that they lost it because of the healthcare law. On another note, millions of Americans gained health insurance, and many more gained eligibility under Medicare and Medicaid. In addition, Obamacare is predicted to lower the deficit by around $200 billion over 10 years.

    "We're all suffering from it" is absolutely false and makes it look like you are the one blinded by ideology.

    Obamacare is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. What alternatives do you support?
     
  19. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    The difference there is that the Democrats are likely to come back with counter offers that while not being everything that the Republicans want will include a lot of it and be able to get past a veto. If that is happening then the Republicans will have a very hard time getting over being seen as the party of "No" I think it will likely lead to the death of the tea party as a relevant faction. Probably for the first couple months they will pass tea party sponsored bills and get them vetoed, then after that has dragged on for a while there will be enough of the moderate Republicans that will decide they are willing to work with the Democrats, and actually get work done while ignoring the tea party.

    After that the Republican's best hope is to vote out all the tea party members in primaries and try to go back to being center-right instead of far right.
     
  20. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #20


    Surprised to read this from you. Your posts are generally well thought out and factual. This is full of a half dozen or more talking points.
     
  21. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    This is a load of revisionist history.

    Republicans from January 20 2009 said they wouldn't work with Obama on ANYTHING. They were the first ones to draw the proverbial "line in the sand" and refuse to work with or support Obama on anything he did. They thought sabotaging every legislation would make him a one-term President.



    Maybe if the Republicants didn't vote against their own ideas (the ACA) just because Obama was President and he supported it we wouldn't be in this cluster ****. Republicans put their lust for power over the people they are supposed to represent.

    Obama came in to office more than willing to work with everyone. Only after years of Republicans refusing to do a ****ing thing has he finally given up and tried to do some stuff on his own within the scope and capabilities of his office.
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #22
    Greece is really a poor example to use when talking about the United States because Greece is tied into the Euro and thus cannot manage its own currency. Also, the United States is a much larger economy, so you can expect the same linear relationships.

    Keep in mind that Greece wasn't just brought down by a high debt load, but also because of endemic corruption, including the apparent refusal of many of its citizens to pay their taxes.

    That's not so say that the United States shouldn't control its debt and deficits, but it's been clear that using austerity measures acerbates or prolongs recessions and thus, the United States was right to shift toward spending to pull the country out.

    What we need now for example, is a significant investment in infrastructure and an equivalent decrease in defense spending.

    Eh, I can't see how Pres. Obama could work with a Congress that voted against his signature bill 44 times and has refused to pass immigration reform, or any other serious measure.

    The passage of ACA was a mistake, not because it was a bad bill, rather because it gave the GOP a grievance to bandy about like a whipped dog while quietly pissing on the rug at night and eating all the shoes in the closet. If Obama engages directly, he's mean. If he disengages, he's insulated.
     
  23. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #23
    GOP will take the Senate and expand their majority in the House slightly - say, by 5-10 seats.

    The GOP will then have to learn to live with a splintered caucus that is a party in name only as well as a Democratic President who will not hesitate to veto any ridiculous bills that come his way.

    The Democrats are likely to recapture the Senate in 2016 and to cut into the GOP House majority as well; and are very likely to recapture the House by 2022 following the next census and round of redistricting. And once that happens, the requiem for the GOP can be written on the national stage. We are watching the last gasp - like a dying star that starts fusing heavier elements together in a vain attempt to stave off turning to a dark star.
     

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