Will The U.S.A. Continue To Be A Success Or Be Retired On The Ashheap Of Once Great Countries?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Apr 15, 2016.

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Will the USA remain a success or become a failure?

Poll closed Jul 15, 2016.
  1. Absolutely a success because Liberals will previal.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. Absoutely a success because Conservatism will previal.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  3. Leaning towards success because Liberals will win.

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
  4. Leaning towards success because Conservatism will prevail.

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  5. Leaning towards failure because Liberals will dominate.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  6. Leaning towads failure because Conservatism will become the norm.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  7. Sure we will fail due to Liberals in Charge.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  8. Sure we will fail due to Conservatives in Charge

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  9. Undecided, but if we fail it will be because of Liberals.

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  10. Undecied, but if we fail it will be because of Conservatives.

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. Huntn, Apr 15, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
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    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #1
    Poll and comments. Unfortunately I ran out of poll choices otherwise, I would have included:
    * Success no matter who ends up in charge.
    * Leaning towards success no matter who ends up in charge.
    * Leaning towards failure no matter who ends up in charge.
    * Failure no matter who ends up in charge.
    * I HAVE NO CLUE! :p

    If one of the above is your answer, please state so in a reply.

    Of note, I don't consider the U.S.A a great country just because we are the greatest at every thing we do. :p Hardly, but while having some good ideas, productive citizens, and a large, rich land mass to work with, the country developed at the right time, and was located in the right place to avoid the destruction of two world wars, giving us a huge leg up at the end of WWII.

    And I focused this poll on the U.S. due to witnessing the most political turmoil of my life. We as a country seem to be parallelized, practically politically dead in the water, but realize that this poll subject matter can be applied to civilizations around the world. We as a species are all in the same boat.

    Morality- What is ironic about this state of affairs is that a clear majority will say we are done/finished, but we'll be split down the middle for polar opposite reasons. For morality, we have become too liberal lost our moral bearings or are trying to de-evolve to a primitive self-serving (I've got mine-FU) moral state. o_O

    National debt- another aspect of this great divide, who has what, who pays into the system and how much, social vs corporate welfare, what we choose to spend our tax dollars on, and who primarily benefits.

    Global Politics- decidedly different liberal/conservative views on how to deal with adversity, views with a spectrum from isolationist to nuke the Middle East. :rolleyes: But yet, I don't believe it's so easy to categorize the views in this area as liberal or conservative, although in the last 30 years the so called conservative party (Republicans) have morphed into a group who likes acting tough without much thought put into it, and beating the war drums.

    My poll choice was: Leaning towards success due to liberal policies. Why? Because typically liberals view the spectrum of society and and are looking for overall health and level playing field. The only successful path forward for the human race is to become more about "we" and less about "me". (Yes, I've said that before. No need to remind me. :p) And the optimist in me believes that our species, despite ups and downs will move forward, while down playing the possibility of us destroying ourselves (which could happen).
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
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    #2
    15 years of bombing brown people with more to come, I think we "failed" a long time ago.
     
  3. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    #3
    I think we grow more stupid and self-centered by the decade, we've lost focus on what is important. It applies to both parties and ideologies. Common sense isn't as common and special interests (both sides) is vastly to blame for it. I would wager some don't even know what the **** a moral is anymore. Our laws are becoming a bigger joke by the year and lawyers have single-handedly turned our society into a comedic cluster**** that we will never recover from. The next frontier (and it's happening now) is laws that protect ones "feelings". It's not a A (liberal) or B (conservative) issue, A and B IS the issue.
     
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #4
    Like the Republican Presidential nomination, there are too many choices.

    The United States has had a thirty five-year flirtation with Reaganesque Conservatism. A period that coincided with some some dramatic economic, social and political shifts.

    In 1980 organized labor was a big thing in this country. People seriously worried about Soviet tanks storming into West Germany. Anita Bryant peddled homophobia alongside Florida orange juice on TV. And it was much harder to ignore, because there were only four channels to choose from.

    (True Story: At one time, TV stations shut down their broadcasting late at night. Usually around midnight or one a.m., they'd play a tape of the Star Spangled Banner, and announce they were going off the air. It was a much more innocent time....)

    We won most of the battles over the past four decades. But usually only over the strenuous opposition of most Republicans in Congress and Statehouses around the country. And if you look to our failures: the shocking murder rate; our crumbling infrastructure; our ruinously expensive healthcare system - you can clearly see the handiwork of Americas political and social conservatives.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
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    #5
    don't forget fox news..
     
  6. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
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    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #6
    Laws that protect feelings, if such a thing is actually taking hold is a reach for liberalism.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 15, 2016 ---
    Things were pretty good before Reagan. Even the Carter Years which were viewed as a failure, but nothing like since Reagan when the GOP started losing their grip on reality. And since then, wow, even Reagan would be banned from his own party today.
     
  7. rdowns, Apr 15, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016

    rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #7
    We are where we are due to Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives, Liberals and Donald Trump. All share in the success or failure.
     
  8. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #8
    I lean toward optimism, because I believe the mean-spirited, judgemental, me-first, rootin'-tootin', gun-slinging conservatism is likely to wane, mostly because those that hold those views are dying off and also because many Christians are waking up to the requirement of their religion to be compassionate and forgiving. Also, the huge recession (I blame the bankers) is shifting things to the left. I do worry that the last gasp of the mean-spirited type of conservatism will lead to political violence.

    Finally, it think it is worth asking: What happens to the 99.9% when the top 0.1% have enough machines when they do not need anybody else? Whatever the answer to that question is, it will happen in the US first.
     
  9. Tinmania macrumors 68040

    Tinmania

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Location:
    Aridzona
    #9
    It just wasn't profitable to stay on the air. Then, Reagan deregulated the FCC and soon regulations regarding the amount of advertising per hour were gone or diminished. By the mid-1980s infomercials were legal. No longer was it unprofitable to stay on the air all night long. Thank you, Ronnie! :rolleyes:



    Mike
     
  10. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    #10
    Yeah but we have "Late night" on HBO and Cinemax now. There are nights my wife fell asleep in our bedroom at 10:30 watching a movie on HBO. I have woken up at 2:00 a.m. to take a leak (work out at night and drink A LOT of water) and Katie Morgan is getting railed like no ones business. It's a hell of vision to wake up to. I'd like to thank Ronnie for that.
     
  11. mildocjr macrumors 65816

    #11
    Man this is a dangerous thread... It's pretty good so far but I bet it will be SNL worthy when those diplomatic crusaders start raiding.
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #12
    THEY KEEP being voted in, no matter how bad they do, while the pres is at the top it is congress who really screws the pooch.
     
  13. mildocjr macrumors 65816

    #13
    I know this is throwing fire but I have to - http://www.thetoptens.com/best-president-of-the-us/
     
  14. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
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    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #14
  15. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    #15
    “The quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations.”

    - Ron Paul

    If Hillary or Cruz become POTUS, the U.S. falls closer to its self-destruction.
     
  16. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #16
    If liberals win, destruction of US sovereignty is certain - globalism like EU is their platform, the democrats don't care about the USA as a country at all.
     
  17. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #17
    What an absurd statement.
     
  18. mildocjr macrumors 65816

    #18
    So does this mean that if I think a country needs both conservatives and liberals to keep it's balance from collapsing does that mean I'm a liberal?

    I don't know if I'm black with white stripes or white with black stripes. - Marty the Zebra
    [​IMG]
     
  19. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #19
    Absurd to you, you probably don't even know what you are supporting.
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #20
    About twenty years ago, there was a huge windstorm across SE Wisconsin (I looked it up, it was the May 31, 1998 Southern Great Lakes Derecho). Thousands of businesses and homes lost electric power. Thousands more buildings suffered damage ranging from minor to total destruction. And literally tens of thousands of yards and highways were blocked by fallen trees and branches.

    Despite this once-in-a-century natural disaster; there was no breakdown in society or civil order. The police and other emergency services worked fine. Highway crews cleared roadways. Crews from the utility companies quick restored service (although my factory, needing 3-phase for our welding machines, took three days to get back up to full capacity). Teams from insurance companies set up temporary claims offices to expedite payments.

    But the thing that amazed and impressed me the most was the army of impromptu entrepreneurs that sprang up. Usually consisting of two guys with a pickup truck, a couple of chainsaws and axes. Sometimes a hydraulic log-splitter or mulching machine. Out of seemingly nowhere probably a thousand or so of these free-enterprise disaster cleanup crews appeared literally overnight.

    These guys would drive around looking for houses or businesses that had fallen trees. A knock on the door, a five minute discussion about the scope of work to be performed, and the exchange of a hundred dollars in cash or so. There was no government mandate on this. No permits or licensing. (There was, to my recollection, not much in the way of safety gear: No yellow vests or hardhats. Eye and ear protection was haphazard.)

    By the end of the week, the effect of this was stunning. Almost all the fallen trees had been cleared. Thousands of houses had neatly stacked piles of firewood in their driveways and yards. The only evidence of the disaster - along with a coating of golden sawdust and the scent of woodsap in the air.

    To me, it was America at its finest. And as long as the enterprise, energy, and can-do spirit of the American people retains the ability to respond to disaster - and opportunity - the ways those guys did back in 1998 - this country will do just fine. No matter who is running the White House; Congress; or any other part of our Government.
     
  21. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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  22. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Jul 4, 2003
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    Terlingua, Texas
    #22
    Well, let's see: For one thing, the buying power of the middle economic class has been declining since the early 1970s and has accelerated in this century--and is continuing.

    Regardless of party/ideology, deficit spending is out of control and the budget's component for interest payments on the national debt is increasing. Only artificially low interest rates make it anywhere near affordable. Further, we're exporting private sector capital, as shown by our negative balance of payments in trade.

    I see nothing good, above, and it's ongoing--and likely will continue until it can't. Oops!

    We've become more of a government by opinion poll than by law. And our warmongering foreign policy is making us hated in many places around the world. I fail to see future success, there.

    What with the War On Some Drugs, the Patriot Act and the NDAA, we're already a police state, for all that for now it's relatively benign. Relatively.

    Our educational system is a dumbed-down shambles. Our medical system was already a mess and then came Obamacare with its increased costs to the middle class.

    Separate from the above, FWIW: Federal tax income rose during the administrations of JFK, Reagan and Bush II. Why? Simple: They lowered tax rates. Why? Again, simple: Lowering tax rates increases business activity and employment--which generates more taxes. And remember one fact: If the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee didn't approve of deficit spending, there would be no deficit spending.
     
  23. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
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    #24
    Yeah look at all those liberal business owners outsourcing jobs... Republican business owners NEVER DO THAT!!

    lmao.
     
  24. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
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    PDX
    #25
    This is way too complicated for a poll. To attempt a concise response: We will probably trend towards a failure in the short-term, and best-case become a success thereafter (though that's hardly guaranteed). Plenty of caveats too: We will soon cease to be the UniPolar power of the world, more due to other countries ascension, than to our relative decline - so that can seem as a relative failure in the coming years, although it's a natural adjustment. Currently, American society (as a whole) is unsustainable - economically, fiscally, socially, educationally and ethically - but these things seem to be self-corrective - it's just a question of how painful the correction is. You see signs of hope and signs of gloom these days...Also, America's future is tied to Mexico's - a teetering 2nd-world country that has natural and demographic ties to the US. If Mexico improves, then the US future could be bright - if it doesn't our situation could be grim. History has shown that two neighboring countries of differing levels of development usually find equilibrium with the lower-common-demonitator. I hope for the best, but it's just too bloody complicated to guess what the future holds. As for Politics: Republicans as they are can't be sustained (this is the party, not traditional principles) - and the Democrats have to grow a pair moving forward to be useful...
     

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