William F. Buckley's son endorses Obama, leaves National Review

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Yeah, it's so "elite" to think that liberals are open-minded. :rolleyes:

    But this is interesting in that it speaks to the degree that the Republican party is falling apart. Not only is its presidential candidate plummeting in the polls, but it's seeing some of its more noted pundits fleeing the official party line.

    It'll be interesting to watch the November post-mortem. Will the moderates regain control of the party? Will the neo-cons find themselves tossed into the dustbin of history?
     
  2. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #2
    We can only hope.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    The Republicans are in disarray now in the same way Democrats were in disarray for the last 20 years. Just like the Democrats, they'll spend some time in the wilderness until new leaders emerge with ideas less rooted in the past.

    Buckley's comments on how the National Review has changed since the days it was run by has father are telling. During its heyday, the NR was insurgent within the conservative movement. Now it's mainstream -- partly because the movement caught up, but also because Rich Lowry is more ideological and less of an intellectual than William F.
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Yet Lieberman is praised endlessly by these same folks when he says he didn't leave the Democratic Party, they left him.

    Yet another IOKIYAR... :rolleyes:

    Oh... and with Buckley's dissent, the circle of dead-enders gets a little smaller, and no doubt a little shriller.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    So- does this make Chris Buckley a librool now? Or is he just not a "real" conservative? :rolleyes:
     
  6. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    I'm not sure who some of those new leaders might be, but one rather obvious name pops to mind: Chuck Hagel.
     
  7. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Could be, but it's probably too early to know. Barack Obama appeared on the national scene only four years ago.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    That's going to depend on who wins the upcoming power struggle within the GOP. If more moderate heads prevail, Hagel is a possible leader.

    But I suspect the wagons will circle even tighter, and the far end of the far right will completely take over the party, convincing themselves that it was flawed conservatives, not flawed conservatism, that got them this far out in the wilderness. They'll likely drive out a good number of people who suggest that the party look inward for the source of it's problems.

    Expect to hear lots of "well Bush / McCain etc weren't actually conservatives" as they desperately seek to avoid personal responsibility for the utter collapse and failure of them movement.

    Can we believe it's been only four years since the dreams of a permanent Republican majority were proffered as serious thought?
     
  9. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    This one is quite a bit older, but I thought I'd share for those that didn't know another big family name left the GOP. Susan Eisenhower, Dwight's granddaughter, is voting for Obama as well.
     
  10. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    I bet Ike would too, if he were alive.
     
  11. 63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    I read his article and it was interesting to hear his points of view. He is more anti-W and anti-McCain more than he is pro-Obama. He retains his Goldwater through George H.W. Bush viewpoints but has pointed out that the neocons have lost their way and got into big spending, something not keen on the GOP point of view.

    Buckley is by no means a liberal, and remains fiscally conservative in the Reagan or Goldwater, and even Nixon mold. While he is not a friend to true liberals, he is also no friend to W or McCain. He feels that there are conservatives, like Reagan and Nixon, and liberals, like LBJ and FDR. Neo-cons, or the latest batch, are big spenders diametrically opposed to the Reagans, Nixons, and Goldwaters of old.

    Remember that W has outspent any democrat, and the last Goldwater conservatives, Reagan and Bush Sr., have raised taxes three times and one, respectively, and sometimes bordered on fiscal liberalness.

    The GOP has made a trend towards big spending, but the outspending of democrats in the last 8 years with W and compan¥, and McCain going along with that spending most of the time, just turned Buckley's stomach.
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Even Lieberman is suddenly changing his tune:

    LIEBERMAN HASN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO HIMSELF
    Probably too little, too late for him.
     
  13. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    Ohhh, yeah.
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    I've said the same thing but let's be realistic. Just because it looks like Obama will be elected, little change will happen. The Dems will take him back in a heartbeat. Anything for a vote.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    Well speaking to others here in CT, theres little to no love for leiberman anymore. Everyone thinks hes just in it for power/office as he demonstrated by doing whatever it takes to get in.

    Why people dont look at Mccain and see the same thing is beyond me....
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Yep, he's been nothing be respectful to Obama -- the man who went to bat for him when Lieberman left the Democratic party and Obama, out of loyalty and respect, endorsed Lieberman over the Democratic campaign. Then, to repay Obama for his loyalty and respect, he went and endorsed McCain over Obama.

    Sure has a funny way of showing his respect...
     
  17. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #17
  18. shecky Guest

    shecky

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    Obviously you're not a golfer.
  19. MacbookSwitcher macrumors 6502

    MacbookSwitcher

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    #19
    Evidence of a major conundrum here. Both McCain and Obama are downright awful choices. Conservatives have no real good options.

    However, considering that we could have Democratic House and a Democratic Senate, it is just unfathomable how anyone who is not a liberal could put a left-wing extremist as President on top of that. All three branches controlled by Democrats, not Bill Clinton Democrats but extremists like Pelosi and Obama, could cause damage that will take decades to repair. No responsible thinking American could support that.

    So shame on Buckley and Colin Powell for turning off their brains and joining the blind, unthinking mobs chanting "CHANGE".

    We're screwed.
     
  20. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

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    #20
    As a moderate with populist beliefs I feel left out of the whole political process. It seems that both parties are being run on the opposite extreme wings of political philosophy. There are a few politicians that I can identify with like Blue Dog Democrat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota, but it seems like the great moderate majority in this country have been left behind by both parties.
     
  21. MacbookSwitcher macrumors 6502

    MacbookSwitcher

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    #21
    I would respectfully disagree. John McCain is not a conservative, he is a moderate. He was against Bush's tax cuts, for amnesty for illegal aliens, for curtailing free speech via McCain-Feingold, etc. Obama, by contrast, has been consistently voted the most liberal senator. He is not a moderate like Bill Clinton. So Democrats have a very liberal candidate, and moderates have a moderate candidate in McCain.

    But it is conservatives who don't have anyone to vote for this election (which is why McCain is screwed). Many conservatives will be staying home next Tuesday.

    However, you are right in the sense that there is no "populist" candidate, save Ron Paul who is no longer in the running.
     
  22. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #22
    Obama is hardly a "left-wing extremist". hes more to the right than a lot of the Democrats.
     
  23. MacbookSwitcher macrumors 6502

    MacbookSwitcher

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    #23
    You're, *kidding*, right? Please name me just one senator more liberal than Obama. I'm highly curious.
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    your just makin all the anti obama rounds tonight arnt ya tiger?

    keep it up, your really cute wen spouting ignorance.
     
  25. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    Kuchinich for one. plenty of others. but you're the one claiming he's a "left-wing extremist" which he certainly is not.
     

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