MP 1,1-5,1 Win 10 refuses installation on Mac Pro 3.1 PCIe slot#2 SSD (marked "internal" by Innie.kext)

[Dunalbain]

Hey guys

all attempts and tricks to "add" a Windows 10 installation on an SSD in PCIe slot#2 (APRICORN VEL-SOLO-X2 in PCIe 2.0 x16) in my 2008 Mac Pro 3.1 (OS 10.11.6) have failed so far. Eventually I also had to bury my hopes that the relocation of the PCIe drives usually marked as "external" (regardless of whether SSD or NVME) to "internal" using "Innie.kext" would fix this problem and allow a Windows installation.

Of course, the problem does not exist in the SATA2 slots. A 10.11.6 / Windows 10 SSD installed here in one of the SATA slots was clearly recognized in the PCIe slot, 10.11.6 deliberately starts quickly, Windows, on the other hand, boots very briefly and then evaporates in Angel's share - nothing to be done.

The enormous speed advantage in the PCIe slot makes all MacOS, including the patched High Sierra/Mojave/Catalina, a real pleasure - only Windows doesn't want to keep up.

Maybe you have an idea, a solution for this very annoying circumstance ?!

Thank you and best regards
Manfred

 

[joevt]

A MacPro3,1 uses legacy BIOS booting to boot Windows. The EFI code that does the BIOS booting only exposes the built-in DVD and SATA drives to BIOS boot code.

The easiest thing to do is install Windows to a SSD in one of the SATA drive bays.

A kext for macOS will not help EFI or BIOS or Windows.

There do exist some SATA cards that have legacy BIOS boot code in their firmware but they may be not well behaved depending on what else you have installed (might work with some GPUs but not others or you have to shuffle PCIe cards in the slots).

It might be possible for someone to make legacy BIOS boot code for a PCIe card and have it load automatically from disk while still in EFI but that's a lot of work. There are BIOS boot loaders (GRUB for DOS or NeoGrub) that could add BIOS drivers for devices. I don't think they include the drivers though and I don't know that the drivers exist.
https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/neogrub/

If you're running out of drive bays, you can connect six SATA drives in a MacPro3,1 (there's two unused ODD optical disk drive connectors) and two can fit per drive bay.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/page-98?post=29613683#post-29613683
Drives connected to the ODD connectors are not visible to Windows by default. A software hack is required to convert from IDE to AHCI during legacy BIOS. You don't need this hack if you don't need Windows to see all the disks, but AHCI has better performance than IDE.
EFI booting always defaults to AHCI so macOS can see all drives.

One day, I would like to try installing Windows using EFI. This may require RefindPlus and OpenCore. The MacPro3,1 has a small amount of NVRAM compared to modern PCs. OpenCore has an option to stop Windows from adding certain large NVRAM variables. Windows expects a modern UEFI 2.x while the MacPro3,1 uses EFI 1.1 but RefindPlus or OpenCore can probably add anything that's missing.

 

[Dunalbain]

Thanks joevt
for your helpful information. I did not expect that anyone would even devote themselves to this topic, because who still uses a Mac Pro 3.1 to carry out the professional and scientific work with it, although it is certainly still up to it to a certain extent. For me he is just a good old friend, whom I simply cannot and will not part with and who fulfills my now abundant free time (retired scientist) with challenges of this kind.

You are of course right, Innie.kext has only proven itself to be an optical cosmetic in MacOs.

The Apricorn (a GForce gtx 680 in the neighboring PCIe slot # 1) works extremely quickly; Catalina boots and works over the Apricorn with no problems. Boot Camp (from MacOS 10.11/10.13/10.15) "recognizes" the Apricorn and can also install Windows 10 on it, but Windows does not start from the Apricorn

As you already said, Windows 10 in the SATA bays does not cause any problems and runs flawlessly here.

But I want to use the speed of the PCIe lanes...

I extracted the "NVMe.ffs" from Catalina and built it into the Mac Pro Boot ROM and want to see whether I can get on with a Lycom DT-120 M.2 (coming in the next few days) along with Samsung's M.2 PM961. I will then report...

Until then
best regards
Manfred

 

[cdf]

Innie.kext has only proven itself to be an optical cosmetic in MacOs.

Please don't spread misinformation. There are practical benefits to making disks internal in macOS, such as enabling Boot Camp Assistant (on supported or properly spoofed Macs) and enabling SWAP.

 

[Dunalbain]

Sorry cdf,

I should have been more precise: in my case, for my intended purpose, Innie.kext only turned out to be a cosmetic correction in MacOs; by no means do I want to provide incorrect information here regarding the benefits of Innie.kext. Please excuse this shortcoming in my imprecise formulation.

 

[joevt]

But I want to use the speed of the PCIe lanes...

I extracted the "NVMe.ffs" from Catalina and built it into the Mac Pro Boot ROM and want to see whether I can get on with a Lycom DT-120 M.2 (coming in the next few days) along with Samsung's M.2 PM961. I will then report...

I don't think NVMe.ffs is going to help Windows legacy boot from non-built-in SATA devices.

 

[Dunalbain]

I don't think NVMe.ffs is going to help Windows legacy boot from non-built-in SATA devices.

Yup, NVMe.ffs does not have any impact regarding Windows boot from the M.2 SSD in PCIe slot#2, so I unreservedly agree with you.
So far the installation of the Lycom card with the Samsung M.2 SSD was successful; write about 650 MB/s, read about 750 MB/s - that's when Catalina made friends.
Step by step I am struggling towards enabling PCIe 2.0 on slot#2 getting MP 4.1/5.1 --> 5.0 GT/s which doesn't turn out to be that easy...tomorrow is another day 😎

 

[Macschrauber]

What about the Idea to use an AHCI Blade for Windows?

Sometime they are affordable pulls from MP6.1 or MacBook Pros. Also the PCIe Adapter is a 10$ investment.

I use such a blade as my Mojave test System, dismounted the Slot Bracket so it fits quickly in.

 

[joevt]

So far the installation of the Lycom card with the Samsung M.2 SSD was successful; write about 650 MB/s, read about 750 MB/s - that's when Catalina made friends.
Step by step I am struggling towards enabling PCIe 2.0 on slot#2 getting MP 4.1/5.1 --> 5.0 GT/s which doesn't turn out to be that easy...tomorrow is another day 😎

MacPro4,1 and MacPro5,1 should automatically use PCIe 2.0 link rate if you're using the latest firmware.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-bootrom-upgrade-instructions-thread.2142418/
MacPro3,1 may require a workaround.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-3-1-nvme-support-upgrade-guide-questions.2194878/

What about the Idea to use an AHCI Blade for Windows?

Sometime they are affordable pulls from MP6.1 or MacBook Pros. Also the PCIe Adapter is a 10$ investment.

I use such a blade as my Mojave test System, dismounted the Slot Bracket so it fits quickly in.

It's not the type of drive that the MacPro3,1 legacy BIOS doesn't boot. It's the location.
If the AHCI drive has legacy BIOS boot code then it might work (I don't know if they exist).