Wisconsin Judge Blocks anti-Union Law

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. mcrain, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #1
    Ignoring the open-meetings followed by a governor who claims this "non-fiscal" bill is going to help the finances of the state, make this a no-brainer. Democrats owe Scott Walker a big thank you for waking up its base.
     
  2. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #2
    The Desm better skedaddle in a hurry. What's stopping the Republicans from quickly passing the right way now that they have a quorum?
     
  3. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA
    #3
    My guess is that they cannot/will not pass a finance bill that repeats or supersedes legislation only just passed.

    Hopefully this thing is tied up in the courts until the recalls get going and it dies like it should.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #4
    No need to run.

    Passing this bill again would just give each side more opportunity to stake out their position and further expose the bill as the union-busting measure that it is. The republicans who still support it even after the massive number of protests by the people would simply be painting larger and clearer targets on their backs.
     
  5. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #5
    It does have the advantage of prolonging this - which hopefully will combat some of the fatigue and apathy come election time.

    One of the side effects of this battle is that it's costing the unions money to fight it, and thus decreasing the amount they can donate to Obama in 2012. That can potentially be negated by how engaged the base is at election time.

    And even if the recalls fail, that also keeps it in the news for awhile.

    I'm very interested to see how this plays out.
     
  6. thefnshow macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    #6
    they were in a special session not a regular session...it didn’t require any notice, here is the Senate rule.

    Senate Rule 93. Special, extended or extraordinary sessions. Unless otherwise provided by the senate for a specific special, extended or extraordinary session, the rules of the senate adopted for the regular session shall, with the following modifications, apply to each special session called by the governor and to each extended or extraordinary session called by the senate and assembly organization committees or called by a joint resolution approved by both houses:

    (1) No senate bill, senate joint resolution or senate resolution shall be considered unless it is germane to the subjects enumerated by the governor in the proclamation calling the special session or to the subjects enumerated by the committees on organization or in the joint resolution calling the extended or extraordinary session and is recommended for introduction by the committee on senate organization or by the joint committee on employment relations.

    (2) No notice of hearing before a committee shall be required other than posting on the legislative bulletin board, and no bulletin of committee hearings shall be published.

    (3) The daily calendar shall be in effect immediately upon posting on the legislative bulletin boards. The calendar need not be distributed.

    (4) Any point of order shall be decided within one hour.

    (5) No motion shall be entertained to postpone action to a day or time certain.

    (6) Any motion to advance a proposal and any motion to message a proposal to the other house may be adopted by a majority of those present and voting.

    [cr. 1983 S.Res. 4]
    [(intro.) am. 1989 S.Res. 3]
    [(1) and (3) am. 1995 S.Res. 2]
     
  7. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #7
    WTF are you talking about? Do you understand what "special session" means? Right now, the Wisconsin lege is convened in its regular session. A special session occurs at some time after the regular session is adjourned for the year or term.
     
  8. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #8
    I agree. I am always happy to see the Republican agenda set back, but no matter what party Reps belong to, leaving the state to prevent a legislative session from functioning is wrong.
     
  9. thefnshow macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    #9
    special sessions can be called outside normal business hours or it can be called an emergency session...when they voted on it, it was a special session...governor calls special sessions...read the rule again
     
  10. Dane D. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Location:
    ohio
    #10
    This judge is wrong, the people voted the liberals, Democrats, leftist, socialists out and put in office, Republicans to change the status quo. Now they turn to their old friend the Courts, to impose their warped sense of Democracy. Face it, unions are the downfall of any economy. Be they public or private, unions only care about protecting to weak, the lazy, the unemployable. In my state, unions have ruined it for our future. Until this nation wakes up and all 50 states pass Right-to-Work laws we will decline as a nation and become nothing more than the present state of many countries in Europe. Look at Greece or Spain, even France, it is a pipe-dream to think taxpayers will always pay for the unions better wages, benefits and retirement. Wake-up people we can not keep paying for these people's life. They need to fend for themselves just like us average joe-citizens do everyday.
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #11
    So ... what law school did you graduate from?

    What judicial bench do you sit on that gives you the ability to say that judge is "wrong"?

    One thing you'll find about PRSI, if you shoot from the hip you'll find your shots rarely hit the mark.

    How are you qualified Dane, to pass such sweeping judgements? What evidence do you have to back up your claims?
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #12
    That's terrible! They should be taken out and shot for such hubris.
     
  13. Dane D., Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2011

    Dane D. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Location:
    ohio
    #13
    Sweeping judgements, I've worked for 30 plus years and have never relied on a union to protect my a$$. I work, I produce, I do what is necessary to keep the company I work for afloat. I will never accept the idea I have to join a union to have a job or make good money. My abilities, my skills, my knowledge prevail. What do these people offer besides a drain on the public's money. Liberals have a warped sense of how the world works.

    In my state, union mentality has killed us and our future. Companies are in business for one reason - to make money, economics 101. Without profits there is no money for the employees or the leaches like the public unions. Like it or not, the days of unions and the free ride are over. Try working in the private sector where merit and performance matter.
     
  14. Sydde, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011

    Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #14
    No, you are wrong. The regular session begins when the legislature convenes as specified by statute. The regular session continues until the closing gavel, several months later. As long as the regular session is convened, that is the session. A special session cannot occur concurrent with the regular session. It is either one or the other. A session is a full convention of the legislature to do business, not just any old meeting of legislators.
     
  15. Dane D. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Location:
    ohio
    #15
    If I run a company, and I have run a company, my own. The weak or non-productive people will be a drain on my bottom-line ie. profits. You wouldn't keep a non-productive person on the payroll just because you have too would you? No, you get rid of them and either replace them, assign their duties to someone who is capable or do it yourself. The bottom line is without profits, companies die.
     
  16. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #16
    If the only way for you to make a profit is by sodomizing your employees, your company deserves to die.
     
  17. citizenzen, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #17
    Nice.

    In other words, you have no basis on which to judge whether the Wisconsin Judge is right or wrong.

    You're simply reacting ... without even remotely understanding what you're reacting to.

    What you obviously don't understand is that the judge made no decision on unions or the right to collective bargaining at all. All she did was issue a temporary restraining order based on the possibility that the Wisconsin legislature passed the law without the 24-hour notice required by Wisconsin's open meetings law.

    She is simply helping to determine and ensure that established legislative rules are followed.

    Is that so difficult to understand and accept?
     
  18. SuperCachetes macrumors 6502a

    SuperCachetes

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Location:
    Away from you
    #18
    How lucky you are to have never worked amongst backstabbing co-workers, or been falsely accused of something in the workplace.

    How fortunate that you have apparently never been laid off while less qualified workers stayed employed at the same office.

    It's simply smashing that you have never been passed over repeatedly for a promotion you were the best qualified for.

    Most of all, I find it just mind-blowingly awesome that the chain of command above you always gave you a fair and impartial venue for grievances and whistle-blowing.

    :rolleyes:

    There may be bad apples in every bunch, but for every lazy butthat who you say is protected by a union, I'm positive I can drudge up an open-shop worker who sleeps at his desk, takes long lunches, commits acts of sexual harrassment, etc.

    In the real world, it isn't about "liberal" or "conservative," and merit and performance don't always prevail. Been there, done that.
     
  19. dscuber9000 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Location:
    Indiana, US
    #19
    Yet without them we'd really be no different from China in terms of labor laws, would we be? I mean, if everything was purely about profit, there would be no middle class. There would be few high-class people who have all the money, and a ton of lower-class who would never be able to move up. In my opinion, getting rid of unions is just inching back to the sweat-shop industrial revolution period.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #20
    Well, it took Dane D. all of two posts to get timed-out. It's kind of a shame, because I think there was an opportunity to straighten out some misconceptions.

    I also think that some people come into MacRumors from other forums and are surprised to find how heavily moderated it is ... not that I mind ... it helps to keep the discussion from devolving into a mindless exchange of insults.

    Anyway, I hope Dan returns to continue the discussion.
     
  21. thefnshow macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    #21
    unless the gov. calls an emergency session ergo a special session which is what he did
     
  22. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #22
    Nope. The legislature is currently in session. Regular session. One at a time. You cannot have a special session during regular session, it makes no sense.
     
  23. samiwas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #23
    And it's simply funny that you think this is the way all unions work. That an employer simply cannot get rid of a bad apple. False.

    I am part of a union. And let me assure you that there have been plenty of people booted off calls or banned from working in certain venues for a variety of reasons. If you don't show up with the correct tools, you're off the call. If you show up late, you don't get to work and you are sent home. If you are caught SLEEPING at work, you will be banned from working again and probably face a fine.

    However, if you are a knowledgeable, productive worker, you will be moved up the list and get more calls and better work.

    Get your facts straight before assuming that all unions are just a drain. Some certainly are. All of them are not. And in my business, you better believe that without protection, there would be some crazy $#!™ happening.

    And to assume that all private businesses only promote the better people... Patently false again. I was up against another guy for a promotion one time. My experience, knowledge, and work ethic FAR surpassed his. He got the promotion. Why? He was MUCH more of a buddy-buddy type with the guys who made the decision. He was the "fun guy", while I was the guy who wanted to get the job done. Once he got the promotion (well, before he got it, too), he did practically nothing but call me whenever there was an issue and had me fix it while he sat at his area and watched TV (porn) on his computer. He had very little actual knowledge of the job, and no motivation to do anything, but he got promoted. And he went on for more promotions after that. And if you think this is an isolated case, you are kidding yourself. I ended up quitting because the place was a BS sandwich.
     
  24. skunk, Mar 19, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2011

    skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #24
    You have obviously been fortunate not to need their services.

    I am surprised that you affect to know so little: you clearly enjoy advantages in your relationship with your employers which others do not. Many of these advantages may have been secured by those unions you despise. It adds nothing to your argument to turn on "liberals", as many union members are not liberals.

    Probably the failure to deal imaginatively with unions and a failure of negotiation is what has done the damage.

    Companies can be profitable at the same time as dealing with unions and respecting the rights of their employees. This "money is everything" argument is tired and shallow.

    Merit and performance do matter, but those criteria are not limited to the private sector, and unions are not limited to the public sector, so your point fails.

    Of course companies need to make profits, but people also need to work, and employers need to treat their people fairly. None of these requirements is mutually exclusive.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #25
    Quite the opposite I'd say.
     

Share This Page