With two weeks to go, Poll puts Obama ahead in Texas

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cleverboy, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #1
    http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2008/02/18/daily2.html
    The article credits the rise in part to Obama's latest endorsement by the Service Employees International Union.

    Right now, I'm hoping Obama gets Wisconsin (they're in a dead heat). Hillary is kicking up a phenomenal amount of "dust" in an attempt not to have Wisconsin be another "write off". In the last week, she's redefined herself as the "solutions" person, attacked Obama for using a similar line from a Deval Patrick speech (friend of Obama and Governor of MA), and launched negative ads citing his refusal to debate her ahead of the Wisconsin primary, while accepting two debates following.

    Impressively, Obama's campaign has created an entirely different website for the Texas primary.

    http://www.obamadallas.com/

    With two weeks to go, everyone's looking to see who lands the next gut punch. Might just be Hillary tomorrow.

    ~ CB
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Please, please, please! This has to happen! Go Obama!
     
  3. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #3
    Boy, that new thing about the "borrowed lines" is starting to really piss me off as I see the media picking up the "story" (if it can be called one). If Hillary Clinton had used a nice turn of phrase from Bill Clinton I'm very sure the whole thing would go completely ignored by the Obama camp. Obama called the criticism "absurd" and "desperate", and that's exactly what it feels like (harkening back to the Clinton camp using his kindergarten paper as evidence that he planned to run for President even when he claimed he hadn't until recently)... although I'm concerned some voters might get drawn in by mountains being made from molehills, instead of sticking to the goddamn issues!

    Combine that with Clinton wanting the ghost delegates of Michigan and Florida to be reinstated (as if that would be perfectly fair), I'm really concerned that I'm actually NOT going to vote in November if she eventually wins the nomination. I mean, even her own supporters are concerned about her campaigns contention that legal action hasn't been ruled out. It's completely warping my impression of the Clintons and turning everything good they've ever done into one massive tumescent ego trip. It continues to show a truly saddening and cynical lack of faith, religious or even governmental.

    ~ CB
     
  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #4
    The Clintons have made a lot of enemies on the road to political success. Politicians will do that, of course, but Bill & Hillary seem particularly adept at it. From what I've read it usually seems to come from something similar to what you're expressing: a loss of faith, the realization that they are not who you thought they were.

    Yours just seems to be one more case. It's a big club and, apparently, growing bigger all the time.
     
  5. kainjow Moderator emeritus

    kainjow

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    #5
    I'm curious to know, since it seemed like previously you were on the fence with Obama, but are you supporting him now?

    I think I'll be voting for him in two weeks here in Ohio. I just found out my voting booth location is virtually right down the street from me. I'm excited to be voting for the first time ever :)

    Cleverboy, I think if Hillary wins the nomination and Nader runs, I'll vote for him :D
     
  6. spork183 macrumors 6502a

    spork183

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    #6
    doesn't mean a thing if it is close at the convention. the super delegates will give us poor, uninformed voters the correct candidate. Just have faith. You know the SD's will be looking out for your best interests... :eek:
     
  7. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #7
    Clinton going negative. Did I not predict it?
     
  8. kainjow Moderator emeritus

    kainjow

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    #8
    I'm sure videos like this (warning: ears may implode) aren't helping her campaign either ;)
     
  9. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #9
    You did, but you'll have to remember that some people weren't disagreeing with you, but noting that if she did, there would be consequences. At the time, you interpreted predictions of consequences as disagreement with the likelihood that she'd do it. So, those events will inevitably be the next wave.

    ~ CB
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Because he's our best hope for something decent to happen in this country. He made some miscalculations and has made up for them. This guy actually admits mistakes! Amazing. I find that unbelievably irresistable.
     
  11. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #11
    Apparently I'll have to vote for him too, or simply abstain like many GOP voters inevitably will. I'll hold my nose for 4 more years of stupidity and pray the country doesn't come falling down around our ears. Obama is doing a damn good job of responding to criticisms with words like "dissappointing" or "curious" in the face on Clinton's absolute demonization of his character... everywhere you look, she's trumping up charges that most people wouldn't look twice at, but they're trying to give her campaigns words proper respect. She's doing exactly as Obama's criticised her as doing... "anything to win". Dick Morris, former Clinton adviser is hardly "unbiased" when it comes to the Clintons these days... but after listening to the entirety of "Living History" (Hillary memoir), I found it almost refreshing to read his versions of certain events... like:
    :eek:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-morris061203.asp

    Funnily enough, if Obama were to go absolutely negative, not ONLY would he lose the support of many of his supporters... but he'd come off much worse for dredging up things most people no longer want to hear about the Clintons. I mean, the degree of garbagy attacks on Hillary are many. Dick Morris had quite a few slings in a column he wrote for TheHill.com:
    Eesh. And he's not exactly wrong for bringing that stuff up. I was looking at this video recently, and it really didn't help me feel like the Clintons were anything but disturbingly power-hungry people.

    Hillary Clinton vs. Peter Paul - Parts 1 & 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfUajhL24I

    I'd be the first one discrediting these stories, except for the fact that these people demonstrably KNEW the Clintons and their assertions are backed up with demonstrably inconsistent behavior from the Clintons.

    ~ CB
     
  12. redfirebird08 macrumors regular

    redfirebird08

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    #12
    Pretending to not know the guy? Pretty darn obvious she knew the guy, judging by the video. She has absolutely no ground to stand on as far as integrity but she's attacking Obama? Figures.

    Speaking of integrity, I think Obama needs to make the difference between him and her on Iraq clearer. He should ask her why so many of her fellow Democrats in Congress have made apologies for their decision, including the likes of Edward and Kerry, yet Hillary keeps using euphemisms to avoid apologizing. She attacks Bush constantly but will never admit her own responsibility in the matter. That shows a lack of humility and further shows how stupid she thinks we are to continue the bullcrap instead of just admitting it. Obama stood up against the war in 2002, when it wasn't politically popular to do it and when he was dealing with a re-election campaign in a state legislature. He's had far more integrity on the matter of Iraq than her, and although he does attack her stance on the war, his rhetoric is more scathing towards Bush when he should be going after her because she's the one taking cheap shots at him constantly throughout this campaign. It's not the initial stance that is the problem, it's the George W. Bush-esque failure to admit a mistake. Hillary shares that with Bush. Too arrogant to admit she's ever wrong.
     
  13. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #13
    Well, come saturday, the early voting in the primaries starts in TX. I'll be doing what I can to try to ensure that Hillary doesn't take this state. Hopefully I'll be able to talk my wife into voting, and maybe a few others, but my sphere of influence in TX is not that large, and those that I can influence probably wouldn't bother to take the time out of their day to vote...

    The part that worries me the most about TX and the fact that it's a GOP stronghold is that with people like Rush Limbaugh pulling for Hillary because they see her as the GOP's best chance to win in November, there could be a large block of GOP voters who vote to try to swing it for Hillary, since their candidate is pretty much determined.
     
  14. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #14
    Dick Morris argued in an interview that exactly the OPPOSITE might happen. They'd be so frightened of a Clinton presidency, that they'd actually turn out for Obama and see her fail. The Clinton-machine is probably going to be a more workable contest, but it doesn't mean that getting her closer to her goal wouldn't send chills up their spine... especially casting a vote for her. I think I agree with him on that, but we'll see...

    ~ CB
     
  15. Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    Puh-lease. Every politician plagiarises from those in their party bloc. I used to write speeches for an African politician and more often than not the only source material I was allowed to use were speeches that colleagues had given months earlier.
     
  16. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #16
    I can see it going both ways. Sure there are a lot of people who despise Clinton here (well everywhere really, but there seems to be a higher proportion here) but in that same camp you have lots of people listening to Rush Limbaugh who might see Clinton as the best chance of winning and with Rush threatening to raise money for her campaign, there could be a not insignificant amount of GOP voters pulling for her...

    I can see the GOP pulling both ways and ending up in a wash but a lot of that will depend on whether or not there's a strong push from the conservative pundits to try to push one or the other in the primary, of course it could backfire and give TX to Huckabee if too many try to influence the Dems primary...

    Of course the more I think about it, if it comes down to Clinton or McCain, I think we're going to see a one term presidency since both will be plagued by party bickering which could limit their ability to do anything substantial. I don't doubt that Obama will have some of the bickering, but I see his administration moving in a direction of trying to pull the two sides together rather than always fighting especially if he wins the election by a wide margin showing a large amount of independent and some conservative support.
     
  17. redfirebird08 macrumors regular

    redfirebird08

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    #17
    Further proof that the Clintons are pricks when they continue to attack despite THIS:

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Deval_Patrick_I_asked_Obama_to_0219.html

    Or the article that said Patrick's 2006 campaign for governor was based mostly on Obama's 2004 speech at the Democratic Convention. Only the right wing and the Clintons would keep attacking on this. I hope that he can beat them so that we can have a fairly clean fall campaign since McCain and Obama are honorable people.

    If they didn't already piss off black voters enough with Bill's race-baiting, I bet this will make things even worse. I think we might have a chance to beat them in Texas because of the black vote coming out strong. And I know us college kids will be coming out strong. What's she left with, Latinos? That ain't gonna get it done. The black voters cancel them out, so then it comes down to college kids and independents/Republicans. Obama owns her in all 3 of those categories.
     
  18. Pittsax macrumors 6502

    Pittsax

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    #18
    And Obama actually pulled to about even in the Latino vote in the last round of primaries. If Hilary DOES win Texas because of some GOP shenanigans, I hope it's reflected in exit polling and dealt with accordingly.

    I still don't get why people should be able to vote in the other party's primaries in the first place. It just opens the door for this kind of crap, and the US election system has enough problems as it is.
     
  19. redfirebird08 macrumors regular

    redfirebird08

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    #19
    I don't have a problem with letting Independents vote, but the opposite party probably should be restricted. At any rate, I think Obama will make a pretty big dent in her Latino stronghold. The media keeps saying that the average age of Texan Latinos is around 30. We all know that there is a generational gap, a BIG one -- and I don't mean that just in his age but also his attitude (Hillary comes off like a mean old witch constantly...and McCain is just old). If he can win tonight and bury this stupid plagiarism thing with a nice boost of momentum, I think he stands a great shot in Texas. If she tries to attack his integrity again, he needs to go after her on Iraq and her refusal to release her tax returns. She's the only candidate remaining that donated millions of dollars to her campaign, yet she's afraid to let everyone know the truth about her personal finances.
     
  20. ert3 macrumors 6502a

    ert3

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    #20
    Nothing scares me more than the clitons.

    They have to much of a history with conspiracy theorists to be trusted.

    I am just saying if hillary end up in the primary are we willing to go back to the days of wondering weather or not the end justifies the means.
     
  21. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #21
    The only problem is that there is no way to ensure this. I can declare whatever party affiliation I want, but that doesn't make me vote one way or the other when it comes down to election time. Nor does it force me to donate exclusively to one party or prevent me from donating more to the other party.

    If you restrict it and one party wants to play shenanigans with the other parties primary, it'll just have a bunch of people registering with a party they don't support.
     
  22. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #22
    I didn't disagree that there's a downside to going negative, but I did say that it was becoming almost inevitable. Clinton has to chink Obama's armor or she's cooked. Her negatives are already high, so she's got very little to lose by attacking.
     
  23. redfirebird08 macrumors regular

    redfirebird08

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    #23
    She risks losing many of Obama's voters, particularly college students like myself.
     
  24. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #24
    Well obviously she hasn't got them now, and she's not worrying about November yet. The risk (and this what the Republicans are hoping) is that the Democratic candidates rip each other down during the primaries.
     
  25. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #25
    Well since it's the primaries, losing Obama's voters doesn't hurt her at all, and if her attacks convince even a small percentage that Obama isn't as great as he seems, it's a win for her. Getting them not to vote for Obama is just as important as getting her supporters to vote for her. Losing Obama's supporters for the general election isn't a concern at this point...
     

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