Woman tricked into taking abortion pill

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by glocke12, May 16, 2013.

  1. glocke12 macrumors 6502a


    Jan 7, 2008
    So when the woman wants an abortion it is not murder, when the father wants an abortion it is murder...should make for an interesting defense for the guys lawyer.

    TAMPA - John Andrew Welden did not want to be a father, authorities say.

    So when his girlfriend got pregnant, prosecutors say, Welden faked a prescription for an abortion pill, switched a label so the medication appeared to be a common antibiotic, and gave her the drug.

    The drug did its job. The unborn baby died.

    "In my years as a prosecutor, this case is one of the most shocking and premeditated cases I've seen," Assistant U.S. Attorney W. Stephen Muldrow told U.S. Magistrate Anthony Porcelli during a hearing Wednesday.

    Now Welden, 28, is facing the possibility of life behind bars without parole, charged with murder under a rarely used federal statute known as the "Protection of Unborn Children Act." He also is charged with tampering with a prescription "under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference" to the risk of death or injury.

  2. AhmedFaisal, May 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  3. Technarchy macrumors 604


    May 21, 2012
    Pro Choice right?

    "Protection of Unborn Children Act."

    Is that a joke?
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    It's not, it's all about the KKK. Kinder, Kirche, Küchen.
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010

    The federal law that the dude is being prosecuted under is the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

    It was passed through a Republican led House of Representatives.

    Passed through a Republican led Senate.

    And was signed by Republican President George W. Bush.

    So if you're having questions regarding the moral issues you posed above, I'd start by questioning Republicans. They are, after all, the fathers of that policy.
  6. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Jun 16, 2010
    Avalon Hill

    Nice try ...Couldnt have passed without your hero's...Blow smoke elsewhere...:rolleyes:

    Grouped By Vote Position

    YEAs ---61

    Alexander (R-TN)
    Allard (R-CO)
    Allen (R-VA)
    Bennett (R-UT)
    Bingaman (D-NM)
    Bond (R-MO)
    Breaux (D-LA)
    Brownback (R-KS)
    Bunning (R-KY)
    Burns (R-MT)
    Campbell (R-CO)
    Carper (D-DE)
    Chambliss (R-GA)
    Cochran (R-MS)
    Coleman (R-MN)
    Collins (R-ME)
    Conrad (D-ND)
    Cornyn (R-TX)
    Craig (R-ID)
    Crapo (R-ID)
    Daschle (D-SD)
    Dayton (D-MN)
    DeWine (R-OH)
    Dole (R-NC)
    Domenici (R-NM)
    Dorgan (D-ND)
    Ensign (R-NV)
    Enzi (R-WY)
    Fitzgerald (R-IL)
    Frist (R-TN)
    Graham (R-SC)
    Grassley (R-IA)
    Hagel (R-NE)
    Hatch (R-UT)
    Hutchison (R-TX)
    Inhofe (R-OK)
    Kyl (R-AZ)
    Landrieu (D-LA)
    Lott (R-MS)
    Lugar (R-IN)
    McCain (R-AZ)
    McConnell (R-KY)
    Miller (D-GA)
    Murkowski (R-AK)
    Nelson (D-NE)
    Nickles (R-OK)
    Pryor (D-AR)
    Reid (D-NV)
    Roberts (R-KS)
    Rockefeller (D-WV)
    Santorum (R-PA)
    Sessions (R-AL)
    Shelby (R-AL)
    Smith (R-OR)
    Specter (R-PA)
    Stevens (R-AK)
    Sununu (R-NH)
    Talent (R-MO)
    Thomas (R-WY)
    Voinovich (R-OH)
    Warner (R-VA)
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Did I forget to mention ...?

  8. pdjudd macrumors 601

    Jun 19, 2007
    Plymouth, MN
    Even if we discount what he is actually being prosecuted for, saying:

    Is totally off. It's not about equality. This guy did so much wrong. As AhmedFaisal points out - he fraudulently obtained drugs, tampered with said drugs, drugged the woman (he used deceit to give drugs she was not allowed to take), and caused an abortion against someones will.

    Guys don't generally (*) get to choose if a woman gets an abortion because they aren't the ones getting it. It would be the same for any other medical procedure unique for women. Heck, women cannot prevent a guy from getting a mastectomy. It may not be "fair" but thats the way things are - you can't just change certain aspects of biology.

    *There are obviously exceptions here that I won't go into it - but none of them include scenarios like this.
  9. DesertEagle macrumors 6502a


    Jan 10, 2012
    /home @
    Forging prescriptions and poisoning people are both federal crimes. However, since the girlfriend was only six weeks pregnant, and the fetus is nothing but an extension of the mother's body for the first 12 weeks, this is "great bodily harm", not "murder".

    Don't get me wrong, I do want the perp to get as harsh sentence as possible for what he did, but the prosecutor will have a hard time trying him for murder when he didn't kill a (by law) human being.
  10. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

    Nov 19, 2007
    Portland, OR
    What's your opinion of the law? Do you think this was a murder?
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4


    Nov 3, 2005
    I don't. He did assault her though.
  12. thekev macrumors 604


    Aug 5, 2010

    It seems to go into a lot of things that would have been illegal anyway, but it greatly extends the potential sentencing if this results in death.
    I'm not sure how they clarify unborn child relative to other laws. Tampering with prescription drugs is a felony in itself. Even without the aforementioned law, the guy is still facing charges on one or more felonies.
  13. eawmp1 macrumors 601


    Feb 19, 2008
    Now, legally, he could still be held accountable for child support.

    Say what you will about the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which though a thinly veiled attempt to redefine personhood on the way to limit legal abortion, it is the law.

    But, as said before, this was duplicitous act. He clearly will go down for the felony prescription crimes. But he in fact assaulted her, pharmacrutically. This is not differerent than if he duplictously gave her a roofie to have sex with her in the first place.

    And OP, the outrage points out my issue with the right. They will kill to protect the life of a fetus, but once born they continually erode any social network to support single mothers and children. And don't get me started on the barriers put up for PREVENTION of pregnancy.

    By the way, care to comment on the gender of the yea votes for the aforementioned Act?
  14. hafr macrumors 68030

    Sep 21, 2011
    Meaning you think it's a felony if a woman aborts a foetus against the will of the father, or do men have no rights what so ever when it comes to their unborn children?

    If the foetus was young enough to be legally aborted, it shouldn't be a murder case, but similar to him for instance kicking her in the stomach.
  15. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Jun 16, 2010
    Avalon Hill
    No, you mentioned it twice...What you failed to mention, that it could have never passed with 61 votes without democratic votes...You have no credibility..Goodbye
  16. AhmedFaisal, May 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  17. hafr macrumors 68030

    Sep 21, 2011
    I'm pro-choice, not religious and not in any way supportive of a patriarchal society. Nice try though.

    You said that this is a case of a child being aborted against the will of the mother which you consider to be a felony. Now, a child has two parents and to me, both parents have equal rights and equal responsibilities. So if something which is done against the will of one parent is a felony, then logically the same act committed against the will of the other parent should be a felony as well.

    Another take on it is that an unborn child is a part of a woman, and as such she and only she has the right to decide whether to have an abortion meaning men have no right to say anything about it.

    See how mother and woman in these two point of views are different? Go back to what I originally wrote, see how I differentiate between fathers and men?

    So now, instead of trying to be funny and belittling, how about simply answering my question? Do you reckon an abortion against the will of the father should be a felony or do you reckon men have no rights when it comes to their unborn children?
  18. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

    Aug 5, 2001
    But they do. It is called a condom and is quite cheap.
  19. AhmedFaisal, May 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Feb 2, 2009
    Toronto, Ontario
    If there are any charges for murder and the woman could have got a legal abortion its going to set a terrible precedence.
  21. Moyank24 macrumors 601


    Aug 31, 2009
    in a New York State of mind
    The problem with your statement is that until men can carry children and give birth to them, they absolutely DO NOT have equal rights and responsiblities.

    I'll be the first to admit that fathers (especially in custody cases) don't get the same benefit of the doubt that mothers do - but this is a situation where a man just is never going to have the same responsibilities as a woman does. There's a reason why the laws / courts are slanted towards the woman.
  22. hafr macrumors 68030

    Sep 21, 2011
    There was also a reason why slavery was allowed, and why homosexuality was illegal... Using the current laws to justify anything other than "how should I act to not get into trouble" is pretty invalid...

    If you feel the current laws are fine and dandy and know why you think so, that's good. But using the laws to back your views isn't.

    Not saying I disagree with you, just a general comment since the "I'm correct because it's the law" argument is so common :)
  23. Moyank24 macrumors 601


    Aug 31, 2009
    in a New York State of mind
    That wasn't my point at all. :rolleyes:

    We live in a nation where our legislators seem to lack respect for women - especially women who have sex. For too long, if you weren't white and male and christian you were a second class citizen. So, the fact that in one situation the laws are slanted the other way is remarkable in itself. I mentioned earlier in my post - and in many other posts on this board - that some of the laws unfairly favor the mother.

    The heart of the matter, though, is that until men can carry a child and give birth it's never going to be fair.
  24. VulchR macrumors 68020


    Jun 8, 2009
    Slightly off topic, but I always shudder when I hear the term 'unborn child'. What does that make me? The 'undead'? If so, then the 'unborn child' is also the 'undead'.

    If the accused is guilty, then he is guilty of as much of a violation of the woman as somebody who would have denied her the option of having an abortion.
  25. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

    Sep 5, 2009
    I think it just makes you a "born child".

    He never made it to birth, you did.

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